The Natural Beauty Box

[mellee]

Although they deleted quite a few FB posts complaining, I did save the page at one point.  Here is the Dr's first reply to the complaint post:

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The Natural Beauty Box Hi Tabitha. You have the opportunity to talk to me. I am a Ph.D., Dr. Sci and am the president of the company and have been running this business since 1996. We have been incredibly successful and have done business with over 14 countries. The Natural Beauty box is a new venture for our company and as every new venture that a company starts, it needs to be perfected, until the full process goes smoothly. You've received messages from our customer service team notifying you that you will get the December box in January and the February box in February. I can't see any reason for you to complain, unless you just want to ruin the reputation of my business. If you are unhappy or don't understand our message, please let me repeat it again: you will receive your December box in January and the free box we were kind enough to offer you in February. We apologize for any inconveniences to all subscribers as we've said before. This holiday season was extremely busy for us. We were overloaded with international orders. Please feel free to email us directly and let us know what you would like to do. I would appreciate if you would stop these illegitimate claims about my business, especially if you don't know who you're dealing with (a company with a huge business reputation). Your claims that we are a fraud, that we're thieves and that we are scamming people are unacceptable and should be addressed accordingly. Please contact us to get your refund. We do prefer to deal with intelligent customers who want to do business with us. Thank you for understanding. Have a Happy New Year. Best Regards. Dr. M. Emerald. Ph.D., Dr. Sci, long time professional member of CEW, AOAC, AOCS, GA Natural Products, ACS, Professional Consultant of Chemical Network, President & CEO, ATL INTERNATIONAL (The Natural Beauty Box is our new venture.)

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Right after this, I emailed to cancel the 6-month sub I got for Christmas that was supposed to start in January, pushed back to February.  I got a very nice email from Dr. Emerald saying the request would go to CS the next morning, but would I let them know why?  I replied that although I'd been very pleased with the products, the ongoing shipping problems made me uncomfortable having a prepaid recurring subscription with them at this time.  I didn't mention seeing the FB thing in my email, but the attitude above that "we told you how it's going to be, so you have no right to complain" was the last straw in my believing they take this seriously.  And the next morning I got a very polite email letting me know I'd been refunded, so the CS for the cancel request was exemplary. 

I dunno.  I LOVED the products, which is the only reason I kept ordering again and hoping it would get better.  But yeah - no.

 

[BeautyGal]

Funny thing, I used to live in London. I went to UWO so it's for sure a legitimate place. I dunno about the issue they had with that lady on their Facebook page, but I think I'm going to base my opinion on the samples and the customer service I get which has been great so far. I did see the lady post a wall post on their page at least 2 times that since she didn't get the December box, the natural beauty box is a scam and that she's going to contact the BBB on them. She also said that she got all her friends there and they started a conversation over 50 messages long all posting different things about NBB... I honestly don't think when the box comes is such a big deal and I don't get the reason to worry about it so much. They sent out an email saying it's going to be later and replied to other people's posts on when it's going to come.

Looking around on that other site it kind of looks like they bash lots herbal and natural products so I'm not too sure about that. Nonetheless, I think I love the samples in the box and am looking forward to the December box. They also posted they're adding an extra mascara into the box so I thought that was exciting. One thing I couldn't find a very good 100% natural alternative to was mascara. Fingers crossed!

 

[Lulubelle107]

I think it takes a thick skin to be in business in this age of social media.  I also think that companies need to be smart in how they approach social media, as it can be a great boon or curse.  I personally wouldn't have unmoderated comments if I had a company.  Dr. Emerald is impervious in tone, but again, I'm not surprised.  I've worked with a lot of researchers, and IMO, they do best when they let someone else be the "face" of the company.  The ability to smooth ruffled feathers with customers is not necessarily a skill that many of them have naturally or have cultivated. 

OTOH, I can see a company owner not wanting people claiming things like "thieves and scammers" on their Facebook page, especially when they have tried to address the issue.  Maybe not to everyone's satisfaction, but I'm not seeing evidence of taking the money and running at this point. 

 

[BeautyGal]

I don't think I would allow unmoderated comments if I have a business FB page either, especially seeing all the thing people sometimes complain about...

I just wanted to add that when I ordered some stuff from NBB (their store) for Christmas a week before, it came on time, I've never gotten a damaged box/product and they seem to reply quickly. I think they have quite good cutomer service, especially comparing to other companies which I was buying from recently. I ordered from Urban outfitters on Dec 13 and was told it'll come before Christmas. So then I wait a few days and contact them for when it's going to ship. They say since I paid by PayPal they missed my order. So then they ship it a few days after I contact them, and it comes after Christmas. I get charged $40 customs fees to accept the package, and find out that most of the items which I ordered weren't even as described by a sales person, so I call them, deciding I want to return them. They tell me that I can return the items to them but I have to pay to ship them and that they can't refund the customs fees because it's not their fault, even though I know if they mark something as a 'gift' the person which receives it won't get hit by customs charge. So I'll have to pay around $20 to ship something that's worth $80 back to them. Basically, I paid $60 for nothing... At least NBB gave the international customers that said they had customs fees free boxes and said that they will ship differently next month so that they don't get hit by charges again. Speaking of cutoms charges, this place I ordered from said they would ship by USPS not UPS (ups charges, usps doesn't) but shipped by UPS and I got $80+ customs fees and they don't want to give me a partial refund or a gift card or anything.

Another place on Etsy I ordered from 3 weeks before Christmas said they're sure that they'll get it by then. They contacted me last week, saying they didn't ship the order yet and are asking if I want them to ship it or want a refund. I have no idea why they didn't ship it yet, but I decided to go with a refund as this was a gift for my sister who was visiting for the holidays. I guess it's the holiday rush and they're a small business, but still, they said they're sure it'll come...

 

[mellee]

I agree, Beautygal, that the primary thing you consider should be your opinion of the products and service.  But while I love the products, my experiences with CS, even when ordering from the shop rather than the box, haven't been good all along.  Things like not shipping for a month, closing the site and not answering numerous emails.  I finally got a reply only when I sent one saying I no longer wanted the order if it hadn't shipped and cancel it or I'd contact Paypal, they promised to send the order out the following day, next day air.  When I contacted them two mornings later asking if that had been done, they replied over 12 hours later that they couldn't send it overnight because I was not in Canada and gave me a tracking number (which was wrong - I had to write back to get another), and when I checked tracking they hadn't even mailed it the following day as promised, but the day after that.  That was not Dr. Emerald replying to me, but someone who identified herself as a partner.  *Shrug*  And yet I ordered again, both from the store and the boxes, and reported both when results were good and bad.

As far as whether it's a big deal if the boxes come late, you should take a look at the Birchbox thread and see how angry people get if any part of the process goes just a few days after schedule! 

  *Chuckle*  But in our defense, we get all out-of-perspective excited about these boxes.  We comb the threads keeping the momentum going all month, we salivate over spoilers and guess for pages at any crumb of a hint, and we stalk mailmen around the magical day of delivery, for goodness sake!  That's the kind of excitement most companies would kill to generate in their customers!  But with that comes some pretty high expectations, because if you delay the reward, the anger and disappointment will be pretty much as out-of-perspective.

In this particular case, I think a lot of people would agree with you about it comes when it comes, if they didn't keep promising it was out, then the next week saying they were getting it out, then the next week saying they were getting it out (as they've been doing on their FB page), then it's into the next month and sorry - next month will be earlier - then the next month is a month late and everything gets so messed up that they have to skip months...  That's a lot to expect someone who's got the sub-box-excitement to accept graciously.  And one of my biggest worries about having a prepaid sub is if they keep doing this, they might upset enough customers that the box isn't even around for 6 months.

I agree with you, too. Lulubelle, but based on what the girl's post said, this was her third attempt at posting, the other two were much nicer, and were deleted.  Whether that's true or not I have no way of knowing, since they deleted the earlier posts.  Unfortunately when you start deleting posts, it's a slippery-slope to anyone really knowing the back-story, and it gets uglier and uglier and you have to delete more and more...  But bringing her peeps to see and comment kind of assured they had to acknowledge her, and at least a chunk of those 50 messages were commenting about the tone of the company's replies on the thread.

Like the judge on The People's Court always says when people bring proof of what happened on the internet, "You have to learn: Say it, forget it; write it, regret it."  If you want to use social media to promote your company, you need to be prepared that unhappy people are part of the "social", too.  And if you want people to leave glowing reviews to promote you, you have to allow it to stand if someone else has a not-so-glowing view, and decides to post that.  You can have the most amazing product in the world, but if you set up an interactive space and delete bad feedback, it looks suspicious.

ETA ~ Sorry - correction that the mention of bringing friends and 50 comments were Beautygal's points and I put it under my Lulubelle response.  Oops!

 

[Lulubelle107]

I think you made the right decision in cancelling the 6 month subscription, mellee. I'm fine with ordering a box every other month or so, as I haven't experienced any problems with that.  Hopefully they will iron out their problems, but if not, I'm not really out anything at this point. 

I've been happy with Eco-Emi and Birchbox on a recurring basis, but when I joined them they had been in existence long enough to have a proven track record.  I doubt I would sign up for a new program if it required a recurring or long term subscription, as there are just too many examples of subscription box failures.

 

[LillyAmanda]

There are many subs I've never tried but I ordered theit first two boxes. There was a lot of pressure to " order ahead" and I caved, once.

It took 2 and a half months for me to receive the first box, and I thought it was a mixed bag of skin care. Some was good, some smelled bad, and some samples were almost empty. I felt that they should have sent larger sizes but of fewer items. I know now that this is not their business model.

I also had no intention of ordering full sizes of anything so the multitude of small discount coupons were not useful to me.

I emailed them about an issue related to one of the Delizio ( not sure of spelling now) items which was gelled in the bottom of the container and almost empty, and they replied that they own the Delizio skin care company and would send me " a sampler of foil packets in an envelope for only $16 shipping".: :headbang::

The next box which I foolishly had paid for 3 months prior  arrived late, like in November late, and some of the products had beachy themes and tropical summery themes and fragrances. Again, many of the natural products had very strong smells to them like chemicals.  I have privately questioned the validity of their claims about the natural ingredients as some items weren't large enough to list the ingredients or I couldn't read the labels well enough to read the ingredient list. Tiny labels, some hand-printed then copied = tinier print.

Regarding the 2 girls in the videos: I do NOT think they are the owners. My intuition and experience says they are probably related to the people putting the NBB out, but are not the owners of record. As for that lady in the Internet archive link who is asserting her presence on FB in a menacing tone,.I would be a bit wary of listing credentials as a doctor of vibrational therapy, LOL.

I am happy for those who like the NBB, and am very sympathetic with people who also have had not- great experiences.
IMO, that's the way sub boxes go- we buy, we try, we keep some, we drop some ( or many). MAYBE if I lived in Canada, my experiences would be more positive.
The slow Canadan shipping to the USA  was used by the company, or girls, whichever, every time I contacted them to ask about a shipping date.I started to really resent that. They knew going in what the average ship time is, and should have adjusted their marketing to reflect the delay.

All in all, I would rate the NBB in my top 3 " not good" box experiences of 2012 out of probably 45 companies whose boxes I tried last year. A really fun and good experience included a candy subscription with candy sent twice a month in a large envelope from Asia!  ( Candy Japan is the name- I forgot to list it on my list but I cancelled it last month because of my budget, not their wonderful and unusual treats and great shipping).  

 

[Tuscanyb450]

I ordered a November box $20 USD which was not delivered. So I finally got in contact with the NBB and was told they had sold out and they had me down for 2 December boxes but since I already ordered a December  $20 USD would I like to move to January. I agreed in early December, however now I have not received a December package. I sent an email when I received the last email telling us they were skipping January to get back on track. So I nicely asked to cancel the service and refund the 2 months,since the company is obviously having delivery issues.  No response refunding my money or tracking information for December, SO - today I took the non response in my own hands and filed disputes with Paypal on the last 2 transactions based on non delivery. This will be the SECOND beauty subscription company who have pulled this on their customers, They cannot just delay shipping!! These are supposed to be natural products with defined shelf lives. This is wrong on so many levels... people ordered January and if you cannot deliver, refund their money! 

 

[EmGee]

I am interested in this box and read they were starting a gourmet candy box too.

How can they even think of starting another box when they skin Jan?

I'm going to wait for getting any more of these box subs. have so many samples to use up too thesedays.

 

[nelliebelle1197]

Yeah, this definitely another bad actor in the sub field. I am so glad I skipped this one! I usually find that people insistent on listing credentials typically don't have the  strongest, most legitimate credentials to back up those claims. If one needs to list accomplishments usually those accomplishments are not as burnished as one claims.

 

[EmGee]

Originally Posted by LillyAmanda /img/forum/go_quote.gif

There are many subs I've never tried but I ordered theit first two boxes. There was a lot of pressure to " order ahead" and I caved, once.

It took 2 and a half months for me to receive the first box, and I thought it was a mixed bag of skin care. Some was good, some smelled bad, and some samples were almost empty. I felt that they should have sent larger sizes but of fewer items. I know now that this is not their business model.

I also had no intention of ordering full sizes of anything so the multitude of small discount coupons were not useful to me.

I emailed them about an issue related to one of the Delizio ( not sure of spelling now) items which was gelled in the bottom of the container and almost empty, and they replied that they own the Delizio skin care company and would send me " a sampler of foil packets in an envelope for only $16 shipping".: :headbang::

The next box which I foolishly had paid for 3 months prior  arrived late, like in November late, and some of the products had beachy themes and tropical summery themes and fragrances. Again, many of the natural products had very strong smells to them like chemicals.  I have privately questioned the validity of their claims about the natural ingredients as some items weren't large enough to list the ingredients or I couldn't read the labels well enough to read the ingredient list. Tiny labels, some hand-printed then copied = tinier print.

Regarding the 2 girls in the videos: I do NOT think they are the owners. My intuition and experience says they are probably related to the people putting the NBB out, but are not the owners of record. As for that lady in the Internet archive link who is asserting her presence on FB in a menacing tone,.I would be a bit wary of listing credentials as a doctor of vibrational therapy, LOL.

I am happy for those who like the NBB, and am very sympathetic with people who also have had not- great experiences.

IMO, that's the way sub boxes go- we buy, we try, we keep some, we drop some ( or many). MAYBE if I lived in Canada, my experiences would be more positive.

The slow Canadan shipping to the USA  was used by the company, or girls, whichever, every time I contacted them to ask about a shipping date.I started to really resent that. They knew going in what the average ship time is, and should have adjusted their marketing to reflect the delay.

All in all, I would rate the NBB in my top 3 " not good" box experiences of 2012 out of probably 45 companies whose boxes I tried last year. A really fun and good experience included a candy subscription with candy sent twice a month in a large envelope from Asia!  ( Candy Japan is the name- I forgot to list it on my list but I cancelled it last month because of my budget, not their wonderful and unusual treats and great shipping).  

I was under the impression that the girl's mother made the "Dr Emerald" products and had something to do with the company? and that it was also their mother's last name <think I heard that on youtube in a video...?>

Also that Ariona skincare was their line too?

Not too sure I would want to do a candy sub as if they are so slow to ship out the other sample bags.

But if you are in Canada and looking for some gourmet candy online Chocodirect.com ships in Canada only and any size order is $5 shipping and  the company always adds a lot of "extras", usually candy or chocolates that are almost outdated <but they do put stickers on those items so you know".

And it is not like a chocolate bar that was "best before 3 weeks ago" is going to kill you? I mean Hershey's and most american candy has no dates on them.

Also Chocodirect usually has a clearance section w product dates listed...but have not seen any sale candy in a couple months <their prices are still good, just sale section was aazingly good prices>.

Shipping to me in Ontario takes under 1 week usually.

**I have nothing to do with chocodirect,but been a customer for 5+ years and they sell to a lot of small local shops where I live.

 

[SubJunkie]

I just opened up two paypal disputes against the company. One for two soaps I ordered about a month ago that still has not been shipped out (I was told about a week ago that they were sending it out that day). Also another one for the Natural Beauty Boxed which still has not be shipped out. /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> 

 

[angiepang1e]

I just opened up two paypal disputes against the company. One for two soaps I ordered about a month ago that still has not been shipped out (I was told about a week ago that they were sending it out that day). Also another one for the Natural Beauty Boxed which still has not be shipped out. /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> 

I was just about to ask if any US residents received any tracking numbers yet since they claim to have shipped.. I subbed for 6 months in like August.. Can I file a dispute with PayPal considering I only received 2 out of 6 so far? Any info will be helpful! Thanks /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

 

[SubJunkie]

Originally Posted by angiepang1e /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I was just about to ask if any US residents received any tracking numbers yet since they claim to have shipped.. I subbed for 6 months in like August.. Can I file a dispute with PayPal considering I only received 2 out of 6 so far? Any info will be helpful! Thanks

I'm not sure exactly how it works. It's my first time every having to file a dispute with paypal. I think what initially happens in a dispute is that they send your comments to the seller and the seller responds to the issue that you're having. I also think that you have 20 days to file a claim against the company if a solution is not reached. Here's what I found online: http://www.ehow.com/how_2076723_dispute-paypal-transaction.html I hope this helps!

 

[EmGee]

I did not realise NBB was so bad at sending out their bags.

I WAS interested in their sub as I like natural products.

 

[Merryone]

Originally Posted by EmGee /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I did not realise NBB was so bad at sending out their bags.

I WAS interested in their sub as I like natural products.

It was interesting to see all the variety of start-up natural product companies, but I rarely found anything that would make me want to buy a full size product, but you do receive quite a bit.  But once a company starts being weird about shipping, they lose my interest quickly.

I believe that they should ship when they say as promptly as they take my money from my account.  Its disheartening when they take two months worth of payments and you don't even have a box in your hand to show for it.   One more reason I like Yuzen, they charge my account when they ship.  

 

[SubJunkie]

I found this today when I emailed the natural beauty box 

Q. Can I cancel my subscription?A. You can cancel your subscription to TNBB if you wish. Keep in mind, if you purchased a 12 month subscription, and only received a few months, we will charge you as if you were signed up for a 1 month subscription and return the difference. For example: (US prices)- You have a 12/6 month subscription you want to cancel, but only got 1 month, we will refund you $189/108 - $20.- You have a 12 month subscription you want to cancel, but only got 6 months, we will refund you $189 - $108 ($18 per month you received).

 

[LillyAmanda]

Originally Posted by SubJunkie /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I found this today when I emailed the natural beauty box 

Q. Can I cancel my subscription?A. You can cancel your subscription to TNBB if you wish. Keep in mind, if you purchased a 12 month subscription, and only received a few months, we will charge you as if you were signed up for a 1 month subscription and return the difference. For example: (US prices)- You have a 12/6 month subscription you want to cancel, but only got 1 month, we will refund you $189/108 - $20.- You have a 12 month subscription you want to cancel, but only got 6 months, we will refund you $189 - $108 ($18 per month you received).

When did they start the renewing charges? When I ordered the first 2 boxes, they made it clear that it was first come first served. Made a HUGE deal out of how quickly the boxes were selling... Thank goodness I didn't cave to a multiple-month sub of their extremely sub par items with the world's worst shipping and a lot of lies.

If someone wants natural beauty items, I can honestly say at this point: Go to a store you trust and buy what you want, or order from an all- natural website. I have tried Goodebox ( all natural but they have very iffy practices with expiration dates and unlabeled creams put into their purchased containers for dividing up retail portions as samples).; Conscious Box which has a few natural beauty items but packages them right alongside powdered laundry detergent and liquid all purpose cleaning spray ( A total no- no).

Eco-Emi, which started out nicely but turned into a melange' of foil packets in a box nightmare, and Green Grab Bag which is entirely over-priced for 2-3 samples with elaborate eco-friendly packaging.

I've already said what I think of TNBB in a previous post. Awful- the worst "natural skin care" box sold in every way.

ETA: Yuzen is mostly " natural" products, but they are not all beauty items. By far the best sub if you want to try some natural skin care, lotions, bath crystals, etc, though.

 

[BeautyGal]

I got a tracking number for my December Natural Beauty Box. So excited to get it. There were some ladies on their FB page posting that link you found and 'warning' people of TNBB (from what I saw I think they like posted it on EVERY post on TNBBs FB page. I'm just surprised someone would waste so much time on something like that) and I honestly think that's ridiculous cause they have great products and I don't really see how that article has any relation to their products or makes their box bad. TNBB just posted this on their FB in regards to those rude comments which were saying that the Dr. (owner of TNBB) is fake and basically a fraud.

Hi everyone,
We have got lots of emotional distress being attacked by Susan Wong and Valerie Willis. Both of them will be contacted by my company lawyer to initiate legal suite.
This action will be applied to everyone who will try to ruin my reputation or the reputation of my company and employees for no reasons and prior to even clarifying anything with us. We also reported this case to the RCMP... and contacted Facebook administration to stop this cyber harassment. In addition neither of these individuals are subscribed to TNBB.
To clarify the situation with the Quacker Watch, the company which criticizes all natural organizations and businesses. This organization has absolutely nothing to do with truthful credentials. They bash and try to ruin the reputation of any natural companies while ruining the reputation of anyone running them. All the information placed on Quacker Watch was submitted by a competitor of our company in order to cut us as competition. I don't think it is a fair thing to do to blame people for what they have never done.
All products manufactured by our company are truly natural and of the highest quality. We are also including some new great brands next month including Jadience, Selma Valentine Beauty Without Cruelty and more.

Thank you for your time and we are looking forward to your feedback on our December box.

Dr. M Emerald Ph.D.,Dr. Sci
Some additional information: the courses offered by Dr. Emerald were for self-knowledge, not for professional practice. If you wish to know more information please contact us. Thank you."

I think their box is great and I don't know why people are attacking their company so much. There was also another post by this lady on their FB which was saying they're 'criminals' and said they took her money and won't give it back even though they replied

we're sorry you're unhappy with the box. We did send you a free box to make up for the missing box in October. You've been refunded your $20 + tax and. We are not criminals are not stealing anything. We did also send out a notification the boxes are going to be late. Please do keep in mind we never send out used products. Have a nice day."

She wrote

Thank you for the refund! I sincerely hope you are bombarded with other refund requests. And yes, the lip balm was opened and it was used. I wouldn't just make that up to make you look bad. You have done that well enough on your own.

which I thought was very rude, as well as another lady posted:

I've just posted a little warning on my wall - there's not many things that an individual can do, but spreading the word to others can really make a change.
Power in numbers can change anything!

If they're unhappy with the service I suggest they don't subscribe and I think it's just plain rude to call people 'criminal' or try to spread the word about the bad service if they refund you when asked and look like they're doing their best. I'm personally quite happy with my subscription TNBB and think that they have minor problems if any especially compared to some other boxes I've read about here on MUT. I'm sure they'll get even better with time and am glad I decided to get a 12 month sub.

 

[QueenG]

BeautyGal- I agree. I did follow the link, but I couldn't take it seriously because they had no idea what they were talking about. Frannkly. not going to get into it here. Let's just say they have no idea what the term practicing medicine means.