Makeup is oppression.. end of story

[Missglammygirl]

Originally Posted by aquaeyes77 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Urm... no! I am not trolling. Are you one of these people that presumes every time someone has a controversial unpopular opinion on something they're trolling? how unoriginal of you. I revised my original post - what I meant is makeup can be oppressive to some women if they're wearing it for the wrong reasons. There are makeup enthusiasts, makeup artists and women that love to experiment with color - and then there are women that are so terribly insecure they won't leave the house without full foundation on because they think people will think "Less" of them.

In my opinion, the use of the word oppressive is incorrect in this case. I think of the word oppressive/oppress has more to do with actually being controlled and put down by another group. That could be the majority, the authorities etc. I think this has more to do with the pressure to be perfect. The media puts as high price on being perfect and the reality is that most people don't fit into the mold of a skinny girl. I have always struggled with my weight. I've never been skinny and a size 0 like my cousin. Growing up, I was compared to the skinnier, prettier, smarter older cousin. Around 7-8th grade, I went on a crazy diet and dropped down to a size 5. I wasn't happy. I barely ate, was always grumpy and I never felt perfect enough. Around my junior year of high school, I quit caring about my weight, and I have gained more weight since then. I'm around a size 9 now. But I'm happy the way I am. I watch what I eat, but I don't restrict myself. If I'm craving a cookie, I'll eat the cookie. And I also realized the grass isn't greener on the other side. My cousin isn't as smart and perfect the way she is. She can barely keep up her grades in college because she prefers to model and she barely eats and is so concerned with her body she has had her ****s done at least twice. And she's only 20. Me, well I'm 19, overweight, have a goo paying part time job,and I'm college in the process of getting my bachelor's in political science with the hope of becoming a lawyer someday. I don't care if anyone thinks I'm overweight or not as pretty. I'm happy the way I am.

Do I wear makeup? Yes I love makeup. Do I wear it because I feel that I have too? No. I choose to wear makeup because I have some hyper pigmentation and very dark circles that are genetic. I've tried a ton of eye creams to help with the dark circles and I have tried some of the serums that claim to help even out skin but none of them have really worked. So I use makeup to cover up those things. I do go out in public without makeup, but most of the time I prefer to wear something on my face. It's not really a societal pressure, but more of a routine for me. I'm used to doing things a certain way, so unless I make the decision not to wear makeup, I tend to do it just out of habit. I do it because I want to.

My love for makeup came about because I grew up in the catholic school system. The schools I attended had a strict policy that did not allow for their students to color their hair, wear any makeup or paint their nails. I could tell you countless stories where they would do uniform inspections and If you had makeup on, they would make you take it off immediately and schedule a parent-teacher or sometimes principal conference to discuss this. After feeling controlled, I chose to attend a public high school for more

freedom. I would say that my example is more of an accurate use of the term oppressed. But at the same time, I didn't feel oppressed. I believe you felt more of a societal pressure to be perfect.

I really don't care for the way in which you generalize. I too am a California native, and grew up and still live in the San Francisco bay area. Living in a big city, you get a lot of pressure to be perfect, but the majority of the people you see are not the ideal perfect people. The reality is no one is perfect. We all strive to be in some ways, but no one really achieves this. Also, please don't generalize about wealth. I find that Canada is pretty similar to the U.S. I spent a lot of time in the Vancouver area growing up. Visiting family typically. And from what I've seen, there are people just as ostentatious as there is here in the U.S.  The difference is that say LA and NYC are hubs for people around the world to show their wealth.

 

[Hellocat4]

Isn't holt renfrew a Canadian place? I think that's the name- cant remember. My aunt has talked about it. Oh yes, also lulu lemon, which I think is pricey.

 

[aquaeyes77]

Vancouver is Canada's wealthiest province because of the booming film industry (the hollywood of the north as some say) and I'm sure people are a little more dressy there than they are where I live in Ontario (where people are rather laid back). But that's sort of going way off topic as a lot of you have mentioned. I just meant that I would imagine people in the U.S would have a little bit more pressure to look a certain way (in certain cities) given that it's the home to western media.

 

[aquaeyes77]

Originally Posted by Hellocat4 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Isn't holt renfrew a Canadian place? I think that's the name- cant remember. My aunt has talked about it. Oh yes, also lulu lemon, which I think is pricey.

Yes - we have "one" Holt Renfrew store in Toronto and one in Vancouver (I believe) but that's pretty much the only high end version of a department store that exists in Canada and it's actually not that lavish. We also have a "middle brow" department store called "The Bay" (that's kind of like Macy's) but it's really not that great or fancy and only sells cothing lines like Jessica simpson, Material girl and some Guess. Nothing compared to the U.S! you have Neiman Marcus, Bergdorf Goodman, Dillards, Barney's, Saks fifth avenue, Lord and Taylor, Bloomingdales, Nordstrom ect. We only have one.. because as I said, we don't have the demographic as you have.

We only have 35 million people in Canada and only a handful are making abover 100,000 per year, in the U.S you have like 350 million people and have more billionaires than any other country!

 

[Baberanza]

Originally Posted by aquaeyes77 /img/forum/go_quote.gif


Yes - we have "one" Holt Renfrew store in Toronto and one in Vancouver (I believe) but that's pretty much the only high end version of a department store that exists in Canada and it's actually not that lavish. We also have a "middle brow" department store called "The Bay" (that's kind of like Macy's) but it's really not that great or fancy and only sells cothing lines like Jessica simpson, Material girl and some Guess. Nothing compared to the U.S! you have Neiman Marcus, Bergdorf Goodman, Dillards, Barney's, Saks fifth avenue, Lord and Taylor, Bloomingdales, Nordstrom ect. We only have one.. because as I said, we don't have the demographic as you have.

We only have 35 million people in Canada and only a handful are making abover 100,000 per year, in the U.S you have like 350 million people and have more billionaires than any other country!

Well there you go. Our amount of wealthy people is so high because we have so much more people living here, period. I'm sure our poor people and middle class outnumber your poor and middle class as well, considering we have so many more people living in our country, as a whole. Again, what role do our countries' wealth and lack therof play in makeup being oppressive?

 

[makeupbyomar]

Vancouver is Canada's wealthiest province because of the booming film industry (the hollywood of the north as some say) and I'm sure people are a little more dressy there than they are where I live in Ontario (where people are rather laid back). But that's sort of going way off topic as a lot of you have mentioned. I just meant that I would imagine people in the U.S would have a little bit more pressure to look a certain way (in certain cities) given that it's the home to western media.

Hold up... I am going to be Capt. Obvious for a minute here... And nit pick. Vancouver is a city not a province. Ontario is not laid back, yes it's rural outside the GTA, but hardly laid back. Just as Vancouver is not as laid back as the rest of the Lower Mainland, but Van is more laid back than TO is. As I have lived in both cities. However, I do get the point you're getting across. Also, Alberta is Canada's wealthiest province due to the oil sands. "Hollywood North" is used for both Vancouver and Toronto and to a lesser extent to Calgary and Halifax. I would say that both Vancouver and Toronto are generally tied for revenue earnings from film production, hence the "Hollywood North" moniker for both cities. Also there are 9 Holt's across Canada. 3 in Toronto, 2 in Quebec, 1 in Ottawa, 1 in Calgary, 1 in Edmonton and 1 in Vancouver. Again I get your point you're getting across to us on terms of demographic wealth. Despite the population and political difference in both countries, the People of both countries share the same value systems based on the responses to your original post. And I am sure most of us on this forum have visited both sides of the border, and they have experienced this value system first hand as well. As for the media portrayal, well, we all know they have an agenda of their own, be it left or right wing leading. So for me I take media with a grain of salt. There's an old saying that is true in this case: Don't believe everything that you hear and only half-of what you see. And I want to keep this thread civil and on topic... Peace out.

 

[aquaeyes77]

Originally Posted by vogueboy /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Hold up...

I am going to be Capt. Obvious for a minute here... And nit pick.

Vancouver is a city not a province. Ontario is not laid back, yes it's rural outside the GTA, but hardly laid back. Just as Vancouver is not as laid back as the rest of the Lower Mainland, but Van is more laid back than TO is. As I have lived in both cities. However, I do get the point you're getting across.

Also, Alberta is Canada's wealthiest province due to the oil sands.

"Hollywood North" is used for both Vancouver and Toronto and to a lesser extent to Calgary and Halifax. I would say that both Vancouver and Toronto are generally tied for revenue earnings from film production, hence the "Hollywood North" moniker for both cities.

Also there are 9 Holt's across Canada. 3 in Toronto, 2 in Quebec, 1 in Ottawa, 1 in Calgary, 1 in Edmonton and 1 in Vancouver.

Again I get your point you're getting across to us on terms of demographic wealth.

Despite the population and political difference in both countries, the People of both countries share the same value systems based on the responses to your original post. And I am sure most of us on this forum have visited both sides of the border, and they have experienced this value system first hand as well.

As for the media portrayal, well, we all know they have an agenda of their own, be it left or right wing leading. So for me I take media with a grain of salt. There's an old saying that is true in this case:

Don't believe everything that you hear and only half-of what you see.

And I want to keep this thread civil and on topic...

Peace out.

Whoops... I meant city* not province. I actually think Vancouver has more "pull" than Toronto in terms of film industry though. And I do think the power and wealth is shifting over to the west of Canada truth be told. And Toronto only has one free standing Holt Renfrew. The other two "Holts" are mini versions and located in malls (sherway and yorkdale) and are rather mediocre - nothing like the glitz and glamor of a store like Neiman Marcus.

I'm glad you got what I meant.

 

[Dalylah]

I miss the good ole days in this thread when makeup was the only thing oppressing me. Ahhhh good times.

 

[CourtneyB]

I'm going to ignore the weird USA v. Canada stuff and just comment on the original topic of this thread.

I do think it's really interesting, as I was just talking about this with one of my professors. He asked why I wanted to go into beauty PR, and I told him it's because we're starting to see this major shift in the cosmetics industry. Yes, I would say that at some point, we have seen a societal pressure to wear makeup in our advertising. However, in the past decade (or few...), there's been this realignment for makeup to be about self-expression - to do it for yourself because it's fun. Incidentally, this is why I want to work for a major beauty corporation one day; I'd like to help be a part of the change.

Maybe for some women makeup is a thing they do because they feel like the have to, and of course that's bad. But it's also bad to generalize and say that all women should feel this way. To echo what other people have said, it all comes down to the personal reasons of why you choose to use cosmetics and what benefits we think we gain from it. I, like many other people, am not afraid to go out with just mascara (or nothing at all), and I do at least 1-2 times a week. But when I'm bored, I also love playing around with my stash and trying new color combos. I do it for myself because I know the people that count like me for what's inside.

That being said, maybe what the OP was trying to get at - or maybe not - is that the societal standard of beauty is oppressive to women. That's a much bigger topic that is a lot harder to answer.

...and yes, I think boys feel just as much pressure about acne as girls - but they are taught not to wear makeup (generally), so they can't hide it. 

 

[makeupbyomar]

I miss the good ole days in this thread when makeup was the only thing oppressing me. Ahhhh good times. /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

Lol 😜

 

[mothermicky]

I have to say that this is one of the most captivating threads that is on here right now. People, myself included, on here are very passionate and for the most part very vocal and respectful in carrying on the conversation. I am a psych, women's studies and sociology major (so I am going to talk for a while, haha) in school and there are at least 5 case studies that I could make out of this thread to share with my classes.

It is really like a free therapy session that is going on here coming from all sorts of view points. Realistically we can never completely know what someone has been through to bring them to a point where they are posting on here. That goes for all of us. For instance, I can tell you that I just started to really get into makeup a year ago and wanted to come on a forum/site where I could meet like minded people who are discovering the art of makeup, but that doesn't tell you the foundations of my reasons for posting nor where I am coming from opinion based. It is a 100 or more little things that brought me here.

While I do have my own opinion about the differences or similarities between Canada and the US what it seems to me is the driving force behind this entire thread from the beginning is a huge similarity in both countries and that is a form of looks based oppression and standard of what is beautiful.

Oppression by definition:

Noun

1. Prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or control.
2. The state of being subject to such treatment or control.

  Synonyms
pressure - tyranny - persecution


In both countries we have a lot of the same ideals and archaic thought processes of the 40's-50's where women were "perfect" because if they were not they were never going to get a husband and all their life they would be spinsters with something wrong with them. Wait before you reply, I am not saying that is the thought process everyone has today, I am saying that it is a leftover idea that is still not completely gone especially in the older generations. In such time period, as now, makeup was something that was advertised to pressure you into feeling bad about yourself and that so and so's product could fix it. 

If you really study makeup ads "mascara that plumps and lengthens" because your lashes are small and no one will notice them. "Foundation that is full coverage but looks natural" so you won't be caught. Maybe she's born with it, maybe it's Maybelline, anyone? Please note that I am not talking about makeup as an art and something fun I am talking about advertising and pressure that is put on women to be gorgeous or at least flawless. 

So, yes I can agree that makeup can be oppressive however not in the way that was presented before in the thread. This ideal that women need to be flawless to be accepted is so embedded in people's minds from the "leftovers" that some men and women believe they have a right to pressure women that are not conforming by belittling, ridiculing, making comments and so on. "You would be so beautiful if..." "I know of a great concealer that would..." "I use xyz and I think you would love it." Or the teacher telling a student to cover it up cause it is distracting.

Which only furthers the advertisement belief that something is wrong with you and you have to fix it. So it is a sort of catch 22. 

I just think that it is all facsinating. Makeup and beauty is not just an art, it is a science, a study, it is psychological as well as psychical. Theraputic and/or destructive. And it is not as different in different countries as might be presented. There are many youtube videos and documenteries out there about beauty and what it means to us as the human race both oppressively and constructive but one of my faves is called Killing Us Softly by Kilbourne. It is amazing! Youtube it. 

What do you all think?

 

[makeupbyomar]

I think this thread is segueing... Interesting you bring up societal norms or standards of what beauty "should" be. I was shocked when I started working in the editorial fashion world where the beauty standards and ideals in the magazines are portrayed by the photography and mostly by the ads that say "this is your ideal beauty for you to fit in" Nothing was more sad to me when I kept getting 13 - 15 year olds that do the international circuit that sit in my therapy chair and tell me the horror stories of constantly trying to keep up as the new "It Face" of the industry. But this is the wrong thread to get in to the nitty gritty details here. Suffice it to say I've seen a lot of breakdowns, burn-outs, walk-outs, and retirements at the 15 - 16 year old mark. Those who have a good sense of who they are, make it to 18. But we all know the conundrum being in that age range. After that (18) they are put out to pasture, regulated to department store flyer / catalogue work. Can anyone say bitter much? Which is what I have to listen to when I do these catalogue gigs. So what feeds what? Ads? Industry? Art? Life? How do young girls growing up keep up with just "one" pressure? Never mind peer pressure or boyfriends etc. but they manage to do it.

 

[deactivateduser232015]

Originally Posted by vogueboy /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I think this thread is segueing...

Interesting you bring up societal norms or standards of what beauty "should" be.

I was shocked when I started working in the editorial fashion world where the beauty standards and ideals in the magazines are portrayed by the photography and mostly by the ads that say "this is your ideal beauty for you to fit in"

Nothing was more sad to me when I kept getting 13 - 15 year olds that do the international circuit that sit in my therapy chair and tell me the horror stories of constantly trying to keep up as the new "It Face" of the industry. But this is the wrong thread to get in to the nitty gritty details here.

Suffice it to say I've seen a lot of breakdowns, burn-outs, walk-outs, and retirements at the 15 - 16 year old mark. Those who have a good sense of who they are, make it to 18. But we all know the conundrum being in that age range. After that (18) they are put out to pasture, regulated to department store flyer / catalogue work. Can anyone say bitter much? Which is what I have to listen to when I do these catalogue gigs.

So what feeds what? Ads? Industry? Art? Life? How do young girls growing up keep up with just "one" pressure? Never mind peer pressure or boyfriends etc. but they manage to do it.

ahaha, I think it's cute and very apt that you call it your "therapy chair." I didn't even realise so many models started that young... what do you find is the case with gals who start later in life (getting to/out of college before they start their career). I know at least two people who've done this... do you think the pressure is different for them, since they haven't had that catalogue of work behind them, but on the other hand, they might not have experienced all that psychological influence about "standard" beauty at very impressionable ages?

 

[aquaeyes77]

Yes the thread got off topic. I don't think I actually conveyed my original point well enough for everyone to understand. I think everyone misconstrued what I was saying as I was telling them how to live and what to do. I think what I was originally trying to say is that it is unhealthy to rely on a full face of makeup to cover your flaws just to appease others so you'll feel less judged. Then it can actually weigh you down emotionally.

There was times I wore makeup even when I wasn't feeling good or didn't really want to because of my skin. I felt it was socially unacceptable for me to walk around with inflammatory acne exposed - as a girl. There is still subtle remnants of sexism left in this society.

 

[BrittneyMarie]

Originally Posted by aquaeyes77 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Yes the thread got off topic. I don't think I actually conveyed my original point well enough for everyone to understand. I think everyone misconstrued what I was saying as I was telling them how to live and what to do. 

I don't think "Makeup is oppression... end of story" is something easily misconstrued. 

 

[Baberanza]

Originally Posted by aquaeyes77 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Yes the thread got off topic. I don't think I actually conveyed my original point well enough for everyone to understand. I think everyone misconstrued what I was saying as I was telling them how to live and what to do. I think what I was originally trying to say is that it is unhealthy to rely on a full face of makeup to cover your flaws just to appease others so you'll feel less judged. Then it can actually weigh you down emotionally.

There was times I wore makeup even when I wasn't feeling good or didn't really want to because of my skin. I felt it was socially unacceptable for me to walk around with inflammatory acne exposed - as a girl. There is still subtle remnants of sexism left in this society.

I understand the point you've tried to make that I bold-faced. The catch with it here though is that you were saying it's unhealthy to rely on makeup...and several of us rushed to say we don't rely on it. And that's where the split happened. I get judged a lot more on my attitude than anything else when I actually get to talk to someone. But many of us here see makeup as an art form. We love creating new looks and doing our nails to show off new awesome products, etc etc. And then it became a USA vs. Canada topic and that just threw the whole thing off. Basically, makeup oppressed you and you feel liberated to walk around without it. In other cases, makeup frees people whether it be to look nice or to let off some creative steam.

 

[mothermicky]

The great thing about people is that they are not single minded or single topic minded. Connections can be made all over this thread to a lot of social, political, religious and other genres. 

 

[makeupbyomar]

Originally Posted by Kyuu /img/forum/go_quote.gif

ahaha, I think it's cute and very apt that you call it your "therapy chair." I didn't even realise so many models started that young... what do you find is the case with gals who start later in life (getting to/out of college before they start their career). I know at least two people who've done this... do you think the pressure is different for them, since they haven't had that catalogue of work behind them, but on the other hand, they might not have experienced all that psychological influence about "standard" beauty at very impressionable ages?

Oh absolutely it's different. They have better social interaction skills as they are in a more balanced people environment, as opposed to the Fashion Industry which is a very skewed small world. Also the college type models mostly do Lifestyle shooting (think corporate ads), and these types of models break into or transition better into the film/tv industry. Also they have something to fall back onto if the "entertainment thing" doesn't work out for them.

My experience with them on the topic of what "ideal beauty" is, (the term "make-up oppression" is never brought up), is that it's an educational topic to them... kinda like how this threading is going. And not so much about beauty products, I do get the occassional "how to's" about specific make-up techniques, but that's the extent of it. 

 

[msjaim]

Opression is such a HUGE HUGE- heavy word  (mis)used in this given scenario. No one can ignore the existance of societal pressures imposed on most to look a certain way.Different types of opression do exist, which is a whole other issue, but your example leans more towards issues with self esteem, body image & perceived acceptance or non acceptance of/ by by others.. totally different

 

[sleepykat]

Makeup is fun for me, in a similar way that coloring books were (ha, and still are) when I was a child. Colors, textures, optical illusions--fascinating! I can look different every day if I choose to, like a never-ending canvas. Or I could throw it all away and never wear makeup again. Or I could find a happy medium. I love having that choice. I do feel bad for anyone who doesn't have that choice or feels that they don't.

I believe that other people's opinions, feelings, and perceptions do matter, to me. If my appearance or actions give others reason to perceive me a certain way, my reputation will affect not just me, but anyone with whom I'm regularly or deeply associated. However, the perceptions and opinions of others are not my sole factor in decision making.

I do have self-esteem issues sometimes, and while I recognize that such pressure does exist, I do not personally feel pressured or oppressed by makeup or the beauty industry. Except, of course, when something I already want goes on sale for 70% off... /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />