# Felt like I was talking to a brick wall today!



## Shelley (Jun 19, 2008)

I'm tired of doctors and the health care system!






Today I had an appointment with my rehabilitation doctor (for past injuries she looked at etc ). Anyways I told her about my recent surgery and continue to bleed in the incision area, the problem is ongoing. She didn't have much to say but that is fine.

I'm still bleeding but the surgeon doesn't seem to have answers.





But I did bring up my little finger and my wrist to the rehab doc. My wrist is back to the same as it was before my neuroma surgery. The surgery was in September 2007 for the neuroma and I was told after the operation by the surgeon, that my wrist may need to be done again but when I inquired as to why or when at my next follow up, I was just told 'no.'

The rehab doc examined and pushed on the wrust incision scar and said it feels like you have a significant amount of scar tissue underneath your skin. I explained my symptoms which now include thumb twitching etc. Not much was said.

So then I bring up my little finger which doesn't bend and I explained this has been ongoing long before my elbow problems for two years or more now and its not getting better. I've tried physio, helping myself but the pain and limitation is getting to be too much.

The rehab doc said to me "Your little finger is not an important finger." I thought wtf?

Next I said that the current surgeon I go to,I really don't feel comfortable with her. I think she tries but I would like to see another surgeon about my fingers and could you refer me to someone.

She said "No." I asked "Why?" I was told once again "Your little finger is not an important finger."

WTF?!

I proceeded to say that I've been putting up with this stupid hand, arm problems for a few years now and I'm trying to get help, to get better, so I can move forward even more.

Nope. She didn't budge. I had trouble getting a referral from her last summer. But at that time when I said I would go to another Canadian city to seek help she changed her mind.

I phoned the other main hospital and was told there is a surgeon who sees patients with and without referrals. I explained a little bit about the medical problem and was told to get a referral because they have a few hand surgeons, certain ones deal with specific problems and it would be referred to the appropriate surgeon.

I see the current surgeon I go to in early July. I will attempt again but if I don't succeed, screw her!

I've brought up my finger problems to the surgeon once and she looked at it for one second, then said nothing. I figured it wasn't the day to talk about it since she was focusing on the elbow. Maybe wanted to deal with one problem at a time which was fine.

Several months later I brought it up again and was told "You already talked about this!"

If I see another surgeon and they can't help me then fine. At the very least I would like to find out and if they can't do anything for me its something I will have to live with.

I know some of my finger problem is due to the elbow problem, ulnar nerve that runs from elbow into this finger. I also know this problem is from extensive past finger injuries, many which weren't treated, and the problems started after these injuries. But this doesn't seem to click in when I try to explain this to them!


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## Ashley (Jun 19, 2008)

omg, I can't believe she said its an unimportant finger! I really think you should switch.


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## kdmakeuparts (Jun 19, 2008)

Well guess what it's important to YOU!!! Geez, you are asking for help, her job is to get you that help, not decide whether your issue is "important enough"

Sorry you had such a hard time....hope you get it all fixed up!


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## S. Lisa Smith (Jun 19, 2008)

I'm so sorry. I don't have any suggestions b/c I don't know your system of health care. good luck. I've always considered my pinkys important, why doesn't your Doc?


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## Shelley (Jun 19, 2008)

Thanks!





The rehab doc is not helping and the surgeon I seem to be getting nowhere with the problems.

Today the rehab doc said to me also.." Your little finger is not an important finger compared to your index finger. A surgeon won't be interested."

WTF?

I agree its my finger and it is a problem for me!

I just hope my newer family doctor will refer me to another surgeon otherwise I will be stuck. The only way you can see a surgeon is through a referral from another doctor.


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## Dragonfly (Jun 19, 2008)

shelley, what do you mean you are still bleeding? Do you have a drain or is it that the incision won't close?

Can the doctor that you just have surgery with, refer you to another rehab doctor?


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## Shelley (Jun 19, 2008)

Lisa,

We have free health care in Canada (some Provinces pay a small monthly or yearly fee) but to see a specialist or surgeon you need a referral from a family doctor. And the wait times are anywhere from 6 months to a year. If it was an emergency you would be seen fast but otherwise you wait. I was lucky with the current surgeon I go to. She had just moved to the city, new graduate, so I got in right away before her clientele built up.

I don't know why she doesn't consider it important. To me you need all your fingers to function, pick up things etc. My little finger does not bend down and if I push it down it pops back up. If I try to pick up objects it doesn't want to grip, gets in the way etc.

Originally Posted by *Carolyn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif shelley, what do you mean you are still bleeding? Do you have a drain or is it that the incision won't close?
Can the doctor that you just have surgery with, refer you to another rehab doctor?

My incision line has four to five small openings, small gaps (not deep) that continue to ooze blood. I keep it covered with gauze pads and check it every few days for infection, keep it clean. The surgeon told me that maybe I had a reaction to the dissolvable stitches and then told me she is not concerned. I had the same type of stitches with my first surgery (another surgeon) and never had this problem. I saw her at the beginning of June and go back the first week of July. No answers otherwise as to why this is going on. 
This current surgery she didn't put a drainage tube in which makes me wonder if that caused a problem. Previous surgery she did and I never had problems.

As for the rehab doc and surgeon... the surgeon didn't refer me to the rehab doc. My old family doctor, who I no longer see, referred me to her. When I continued to have problems with my arm, the rehab doc eventually referred me to the surgeon, but I had to pull teeth to get a referral.

The rehab doc I only see every 5 months. Right now I want to see another surgeon. Eventually I plan on trying to get a referral to another rehab doc.

I also phoned the surgeons office and asked for copies of my operating reports for both surgeries. I told the receptionist I keep copies of my surgeries in a medical file and was told it shouldn't be a problem. I didn't mention about switching yet, want to wait and see. They will be for my file but also if I decide to see another surgeon I wanted copies to take with me.


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## Darla (Jun 20, 2008)

Shelley,

i am sorry you are still going through such an ordeal!


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## Dragonfly (Jun 20, 2008)

When I had my hysterectomy, the surgery was done through my abdomin.

The incision was not healing - had two gaps about the size of a dime each.

I went back to the doctor - he used what looked like a long match stick with a silver tip, and touched the silver to the incision.

It didn't burn or hurt at all. But it did close up the incision by the next day.


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## Shelley (Jun 20, 2008)

Originally Posted by *Carolyn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif When I had my hysterectomy, the surgery was done through my abdomin.The incision was not healing - had two gaps about the size of a dime each.

I went back to the doctor - he used what looked like a long match stick with a silver tip, and touched the silver to the incision.

It didn't burn or hurt at all. But it did close up the incision by the next day.

Thanks Carol for the information. Hopefully my surgeon will do something similar to help heal this. I go back in a few weeks to see her but I may phone Monday and ask to be seen earlier.


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## Adrienne (Jun 20, 2008)

I'm so sorry this is happening to you!! How are you gonna tell a person what's not important about their body parts? Obviously they're all there for something. I'd try to find someone else immediately. I know its hard though.


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## magneticheart (Jun 20, 2008)

So sorry for what you're going through!

Not an important finger?! Wtf?! I bet if she was in your shoes then she'd think it was a pretty important finger!

I can't really give you any suggestions but I do hope you get refered to someone who will listen to you.

I've had a similar problem with doctors ect about my big toe which is something that's been bugging me on and off for 2 years now. It started with swelling and pain. I reluctantly went to the Doctors (I hate Hospitals and stuff) I was then told (quite nastily) that there was nothing they could do and I would have to put up with the pain until it either went or got worse. It went off for a while and I was glad I wouldn't have to go back to the Doctors again. A few months later the pain was back making it almost impossible for me to put my foot down without being in agony. I wasn't listened to and it was awful. Thankfully it's finally been recognized as a 'problem' and it's being treated.

I hope everything works out okay for you!


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## Tyari (Jun 21, 2008)

Shelley, what a nightmare!! That has got to be frustrating! I would tell them to let me pinch a nerve in their little finger so it started twitching and then dare them to say the little finger is not important. This proves that a medical degree may make someone smart but it won't give them sense.


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## Shelley (Jun 21, 2008)

Thanks everyone for your support.





Magneticheart... I'm sorry your going through that. It sounds painful.



The doctors that were being nasty, are they the ones that finally recognized there is a problem with your toe or did you end up seeing a different doctor who helped you?

I see my family doctor this week. I hope he will refer me to another surgeon otherwise I will be stuck if he doesn't.


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## Shelley (Jun 26, 2008)

Update..

I did see my family doctor yesterday. He is concerned I possibly have a slight infection (incision) and prescribed antibiotics. I go back to see him in two weeks. I told him the surgeon doesn't seem to know what is causing this bleeding and he wasn't sure either. I see her at the end of next week and I tried phoning her office today to get an earlier appointment but she is on holidays.

I hope my appointment with her goes well but if I get the runaround I plan on going back to my family doctor and ask for a referral to another surgeon. The last few appointments with her she just says my bleeding from the incision is strange, she's never had this occur with other patients, not worried about it.

It's not like its gushing out. But my incision is open in 5 areas, they look like small gaps, sores that ooze blood. And I've never experieinced this with my other two elbow surgeries.

Besides this bleeding my wrist problem is coming back again, all the same symptoms I had before surgery and it is worse. She is the one that did the wrist surgery so I will have to tell her. If she becomes ignorant about it I will see someone else.

It will take awhile to see a new surgeon but I would rather see someone with more experience.

I did receive both of my operating reports in the mail earlier this week. From what I understand my ulnar nerve in the elbow was crushed, heavy scar tissue around the nerve. And it sounds the operation she did was similar to the first one I had.


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## magosienne (Jun 26, 2008)

it sounds like you should consult another surgeon, isn't it possible for yours to ask another surgeon for some help ? i know doctors don't like to admit they don't know, but a good doctor would ask for advice from others, right ?


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## Shelley (Jun 28, 2008)

Originally Posted by *magosienne* /img/forum/go_quote.gif it sounds like you should consult another surgeon, isn't it possible for yours to ask another surgeon for some help ? i know doctors don't like to admit they don't know, but a good doctor would ask for advice from others, right ? I was hoping she would consult another surgeon since there is another very experienced plastic surgeon that works at the same hospital as her. This hospital isn't the experienced surgeons main practice but I figure at least she would consult him or someone, research the problem on her own.
I get the feeling she doesn't like to consult or hear advice from other doctors. My family doctor sent her a letter before my latest surgery stating my elbow symptoms etc. When I asked if she received the letter she became quite annoyed asking why, what is it about, what does your doctor want.

If I was a new doctor and a patient had problems I couldn't figure out I would at least research it or consult with someone else.

Hopefully it will work out with her next week or maybe she has thought about it since my last appointment.

I continue to bleed from my incision, its crazy. It's not gushing out but its ridiculous. If she is non chalant about this I will get a referral to someone with more experience.


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## CuTeLiCiOuS (Jul 1, 2008)

That rehab doc sounds like an Idiot!!!! How rude! Try calling up the information desk for referalls, they are more helpful. And try to get another Surgeon to see you immediately. I am sorry your going through this. I care for you and I hope &amp; pray your arm gets better. Shelly Keep your head up = ] and seriuosuly go to another doctor, if you are bleeding and they are not taking that seriously than thats stupid!!!


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## Shelley (Jul 5, 2008)

Update..

I had another follow up with the surgeon today. What a waste of time!





I'm sitting in the waiting room with a gauze pad on my elbow and the blood is practically soaking through. I grabbed some paper towels from the washroom because I thought it was going to leak onto the floor.

I was called in to the examination area. She walks into the examination room and says somewhat snarky like "Your still bleeding!?" I said "Yes." She looks at it and says "I don't know." I said " I don't know either but this has been ongoing since May 1st and I can't figure out why this is happening." You know what she says... "Strange. I don't know."

She starts to write in my file and I hand her a letter the physiotherapist wrote about my bleeding and wrist pain etc. She says to me "What's this about your wrist?!" I said "My pain and symptoms are back, similar to what I had before surgery and now my thumb and index finger are twitching, increasing." She says "Do you think this has something to do with the surgery I did on your wrist?!" I said "No I never said that. I'm just telling you my symptoms. I am massaging the scar to help desensitize it (she told me after my initial wrist surgery to do this to keep the scar tissue down, desensitize the scar to help with nerve pain. When the problem came back in the past few months I started to do this to see if it would help again.)" She didn't say anything.

So after all this she says come back in three weeks and in the mean time keep your incision covered.

Wtf?! This has to be the fourth or fifth time she has seen this bleeding and says "I don't know" If she doesn't know why the hell doesn't she consult with someone else or research it.

I see my family doctor this week and I plan on asking for a referral to another surgeon. He is aware of the bleeding since I saw him last week.

I hope in three weeks time this bleeding will have stopped by then but I don't want to wait any longer. If my family doctor doesn't refer me I will be stuck. I will just say I'm not comfortable with this surgeon, I keep bleeding and want a second opinion.

I have no idea if my bleeding will get me in sooner to see a more experienced surgeon but I hope so.

My incision line is not completely open. Four to five small areas, sort of roundish, slightly gaping type sores that ooze blood. I've never experienced this with my other surgeries.


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## Dragonfly (Jul 5, 2008)

Shelley, I had mentioned using silver tipped stick, to close the incision.

Have you discussed this with a doctor?

How are they explaining why your incisions aren't healing?

I think you are exposing yourself to more infections - please go back to your family doctor and ask to have more stitches or even staples.

As I said previously, my incision didn't heal properly initially. And it's not unusual for some abdominal surgeries. But to have yours go on this long is totally unacceptable.


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## Shelley (Jul 5, 2008)

Originally Posted by *Carolyn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif Shelley, I had mentioned using silver tipped stick, to close the incision.Have you discussed this with a doctor?

How are they explaining why your incisions aren't healing?

I think you are exposing yourself to more infections - please go back to your family doctor and ask to have more stitches or even staples.

As I said previously, my incision didn't heal properly initially. And it's not unusual for some abdominal surgeries. But to have yours go on this long is totally unacceptable.

Crap! Carol, I forgot to mention the silver tipped stick to the surgeon. 
She is not explaining why the incisions are not healing. The only thing that comes out of her mouth is.. "Strange. I don't know." Even when I said " I don't know either but I'm trying to figure out why I keep bleeding, why is this happening?" I just get the same response from her... "I don't know."

For now I keep the incision clean and covered with gauze pads.

I see my family doctor this week. I'm hoping he will do something, put more stitches in or send me to another surgeon. The gaps are not wide or huge but there open and look like small sores.


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## Darla (Jul 5, 2008)

Shelley it sounds like if this persists its time for a new doctor if you can.


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## Shelley (Jul 5, 2008)

Originally Posted by *Darla_G* /img/forum/go_quote.gif Shelley it sounds like if this persists its time for a new doctor if you can. I agree with you Darla. When I see my family doctor next week I plan on asking for another referral. 
Even if my bleeding clears up, I hope it does soon, I do have another issue with my wrist that needs to be dealt with. She did neuroma surgery on my wrist last autumn and the problem is back. Another issue she doesn't seem to want to deal with.


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## magneticheart (Jul 5, 2008)

This is a horrible situation.

You really need to be referred to a doctor who listens to you and recognizes it as a problem.

Hope things get better for you soon


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## Shelley (Jul 10, 2008)

Another update...

I did see my family doctor today. Ugh. I'm still bleeding and I told him that the surgeon doesn't know why. I said "I'm not comfortable with this surgeon. I'm not saying she is a bad surgeon. Her bedside manners I'm not comfortable with. I realize everyone has bad days even doctors but she comes across as abrupt at times and I'm not getting answers in regards to this bleeding."

He said "She is a good surgeon. I know most of the plastic surgeons in the city and they are a close knit group. They are understaffed and tend to be hyper."

I thought wtf? I know there is a shortage of surgeons, there understaffed and some of them are probably stressed.

Anyways my family doctor wants me to see the female surgeon at my next appt in three weeks time and see what she says. He wants me to go back to him a week after and then _maybe _he will refer me.

If I want to see another surgeon I need a referral.

So I phoned the other hospital since this other surgeon apparently does see patients with and without referrals. The secretary asked me what the problem was and I told her. She said he would need a referral but each doctor has different interests and if he feels this isn't something he will deal with he will send the referral to another surgeon in the bldg.

Apparently there is a new surgeon who will be working at this hospital from what she told me. He is not a new graduate but is relocating from another province and will be taking new patients but once again I need a referral.

I got his name and he's been a surgeon since 1992.

In three weeks time I hope this bleeding will be gone, it better be. If my current surgeon I go to doesn't help I will be really ticked off.

This is f'ing ridiculous. I shouldn't be bleeding like this and not even sure if I should wait another three weeks. I really hope this will clear soon.

The only other option is to go to the ER at this other hospital and hopefully be referred.

One of my gaps/sores is a bit larger now, all of them looked inflammed but I don't think there infected since there is no pus, no fever. I keep the area clean.

After today I w


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## Shelley (Jul 29, 2008)

Update..

My elbow is still bleeding ugh. Anyways I did see the surgeon today and was ready to fight fire with her.

Instead of her coming into the room, a surgical resident saw me. This guy was so nice, calm, thorough, and you could ask him questions without getting your head bit off. lol. Anyways he did a thorough examination. He put on a different type of bandage, that is suppose to promote healing, and gave me a sample of a cream to apply. At night i can keep it open to let the air get to it.The nurse gave me some bed pads/sheets to put under so I don't stain the sheets with blood. He thinks this will help clear the problem so I will give it a go. I asked him what he thinks caused this problem. He said its hard to pinpoint but could have been the excess swelling split the wound apart, the stitch reaction or tissue problem. Any problems, things change to phone back for an appointment. Keeping positive this will help.



I think my scar will look fugly when it heals so I may have to apply something once it heals to reduce it.

Last appointment when I brought up my wrist problem to the surgeon she was snarky about it. While he was still in the room, I brought up my wrist problem. He thoroughly examined the area and also said I probably need to have another surgery. It will be discussed with the surgeon when she comes into the examination room.

Basically he told her his thoughts on the bleeding problem and she agreed with him. She was in a good mood today but not sure if that is because a surgical resident was with her.





My wrist will be operated on again. She mentioned maybe my nerve wasn't buried far enough underneath the skin the first time and will bury it further with this next operation. It may be local or general anesthesia and the surgery will be in autumn.

I hope this surgical resident stays in our city. I could tell he will make a great doctor.


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