# I dont understand what happened



## mintesa (Oct 22, 2006)

Ok i dont get it.

My good friend has been with bad guys since ever. And she has been so sad to find a good guy. So finally she finds a good guy. They have been together 2 years now and got engaged.

So anyway all in a sudden this guy who is 10 years older, a buss driver, comes out of the blue. She said she has been hanging out with him, going to dinner with him.

Then the guy told her he loves her. And I told her that guy is stupid and cant just say "I love you" if you are engaged with someone. I myself would find this offensive and rude. I tell her just to keep her distance from him. But she says he is a good friend she can talk to. So I think in my head, how about me, am i not her friend, where did that guy come from anyway, i have been here, her friend for years now.

I tell this Gunnar, my fiance, and he says "Oh my god she is gonna leave Sverri for that guy", and I am like NO she is not.

So anyway, yesterday was Sverrir's graduation, so i look for my phone to congratulate them. I see a message instead and read it. "I moved out, we broke up". Im trembling to call my friend.

Turns out she moved out a week ago, and moved in to that stupid guy, the 10 years older, divorced tourist bus driver......

So I talk to her as a friend, I support her, I say nothing bad. She said she left him since they grew apart when he was so busy concentrating on his final B.A. Project (He is a Historian) She said this other guy is such a better guy, they only like met, and she hastn lived with him yet, how the hell does she know?

Well what I dont get... Why would she leave such a good guy for that ass! She was with a good guy! You know, it is hard to find a good guy. They were engaged and planning to buy a place together.... I dont get it, how do just leave someone good for someone worse within no time (3 weeks)? Im so sad for Sverrir and there is nothing i can do.... And I dont get the world! but I cant ask my friend this, coz im her friend and have to support her, I cant do anything now that its over, why didnt she tell me before she moved out?

Why did she do this? I dont get it..... This is just not ... well i dont get it.


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## Aquilah (Oct 22, 2006)

It doesn't make sense... Maybe they truly did grow apart, or maybe the thought of something new took hold of her. Possibly there was an excitement between her and this new guy that she hadn't felt with Sverri lately. I think sometimes we get too comfortable in our relationship that we take things for granted, and forget to appreciate one another. We forget to ensure the spark is still there and lasts. Unfortunately, I think she'll be kicking herself in the @$$ sometime soon... Or maybe it'll last with this dude. Who knows?! BUT, if that's the case, and she just moved out on a long-term relationship to suit some whim of fancy, then Sverri deserves better at the same time! That's just MHO though...


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## mintesa (Oct 22, 2006)

yes you are totally right... now that you said it, sverrir deserves better.




just so sad all... im more sad about this then her... im weird. thank you Aquilah *HUGS*


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## Aquilah (Oct 22, 2006)

NP sweetie! Obviously you know Sverri's a great guy and deserves a wonderful woman. And apparently given what she's done to him, you're upset with her for having ended it with a great guy. She'll end up having to learn the hard way I'm sure that "bad boys" aren't always a good thing! When you're in high school, it's okay.... But at this age, she should have a better head on her shoulders... But hey, to each his own! Now, you get to find someone totally wonderful for Sverri! LOL!


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## Dragonfly (Oct 22, 2006)

When a female chooses a bad guy over a good guy, maybe she feels she isn't worthy to have a good guy.

When females have been brought up around dysfunction when they are children, quite often they remain in dysfunction as adults.

Even if they want to break the cycle, it is too overwhelming.

That's one reason "battered woman" will stay with their abuser, even after they try to leave several times.

I'm not saying your friend has been abused, but perhaps she has had some unhappiness in her past she doesn't talk about.

You sound like a good friend - definately someone she needs in her life.


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## empericalbeauty (Oct 22, 2006)

some women will always be attracted to loser men. even when the right one comes along, they believe they dont deserve the niceness and then look for someone else to treat them like they are used to being treated. Try talking to her. hopefully she comes to her senses.


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## MissMissy (Oct 23, 2006)

maybe she is not ready to settle down, I am not sure..


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## BrazenBrunhilda (Oct 23, 2006)

Unfortunately, some people, no matter how sweet or intelligent or loving they are, don't have the common sense God gave a dung beetle. Maybe she is one of those women who likes living life on the edge. Maybe she needs to be miserable with a worthless man to feel better about herself. I have no idea why she would do something as rash and imprudent as what she did, but you are being a good friend. I know it must be hard to watch her life play out like this, but there is nothing you can do about it...and you understand that. If she wants to be silly and shack up with a dried up old man, I guess she will have to reap the consquences of such a foolhardy and immature action.


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## jdepp_84 (Oct 23, 2006)

So first she complains about not getting a good man and then drops one when she gets one for a looser



mmm....that makes no sense. Well maybe she just likes loosers or something. Oh well, she just has to learn the hard way then. Just give her support and let her know you are there no matter what.


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## bluebird26 (Oct 23, 2006)

I've seen this case a few times, even worst like a week before the wedding, there is a guy that comes out of the blue and surprises everybody, the girl leaves the good guy and marries this other guy, after a few months or weeks, this guy leaves her. I hope that doesn't happen to your friend, but she surely deserves it for being such a player and inmature.


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## han (Oct 23, 2006)

who knows what was going on in her mind maybe she just wasnt in love anymore cause if she was she wouldnt of walk away and as painful as it might be it's better she realize that befor they got married and bought a house or had kid's together some times people cant help how they feel at least she did walk away instead of liveing a lie or two time sounds like she made a decision and went with it maybe the new guy isnt right for her either who knows only time will tell but neither was the first one even if he was nice she need's to be inlove and happyi was with a really nice guy befor and he had his shit together every thing was perfect except i wasnt in love with him and i had to end it although i hate hurting him but he deserve to have some one love him back and so i ended it and now he's married to a woman who adores him

Originally Posted by *BrazenBrunhilda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif Unfortunately, some people, no matter how sweet or intelligent or loving they are, don't have the common sense God gave a dung beetle. Maybe she is one of those women who likes living life on the edge. Maybe she needs to be miserable with a worthless man to feel better about herself. I have no idea why she would do something as rash and imprudent as what she did, but you are being a good friend. I know it must be hard to watch her life play out like this, but there is nothing you can do about it...and you understand that. If she wants to be silly and shack up with a dried up old man, I guess she will have to reap the consquences of such a foolhardy and immature action. wow that's a lil harsh


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## BrazenBrunhilda (Oct 23, 2006)

Originally Posted by *han* /img/forum/go_quote.gif who knows what was going on in her mind maybe she just wasnt in love anymore cause if she was she wouldnt of walk away and as painful as it might be it's better she realize that befor they got married and bought a house or had kid's together some times people cant help how they feel at least she did walk away instead of liveing a lie or two time sounds like she made a decision and went with it maybe the new guy isnt right for her either who knows only time will tell but neither was the first one even if he was nice she need's to be inlove and happyi was with a really nice guy befor and he had his shit together every thing was perfect except i wasnt in love with him and i had to end it although i hate hurting him but he deserve to have some one love him back and so i ended it and now he's married to a woman who adores him

wow that's a lil harsh

I am telling you...there are some people that just don't think about anything but themselves...look how many people her actions have hurt. Not to mention the damage she is doing to her own life. She sounds more like a user or insensitive hedonist than a woman who decided to walk away from a pending marriage because she had cold feet or fell out of love. Why? Because most people who decide to leave a mate at the altar do it for more noble reasons...not because they hooked up with someone else.


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## mintesa (Oct 23, 2006)

Originally Posted by *han* /img/forum/go_quote.gif who knows what was going on in her mind maybe she just wasnt in love anymore cause if she was she wouldnt of walk away and as painful as it might be it's better she realize that befor they got married and bought a house or had kid's together some times people cant help how they feel at least she did walk away instead of liveing a lie or two time sounds like she made a decision and went with it maybe the new guy isnt right for her either who knows only time will tell but neither was the first one even if he was nice she need's to be inlove and happyi was with a really nice guy befor and he had his shit together every thing was perfect except i wasnt in love with him and i had to end it although i hate hurting him but he deserve to have some one love him back and so i ended it and now he's married to a woman who adores him
wow that's a lil harsh

I get your point, I understand it as, that they were not ment to be. But how do you fall out of love with someone you have loved... I mean the last two years he was her love.... maybe I am thinking about this too much. It's just scary, it's like, What if my guy walks out on me all in a sudden. Maybe i should stop thinking...


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## BrazenBrunhilda (Oct 23, 2006)

Originally Posted by *mintesa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif I get your point, I understand it as, that they were not ment to be. But how do you fall out of love with someone you have loved... I mean the last two years he was her love.... maybe I am thinking about this too much. It's just scary, it's like, What if my guy walks out on me all in a sudden. Maybe i should stop thinking...

I seriously doubt your guy is going to walk out on you all of a sudden. Sure, they were not meant to be. Sure she had an unalienable right to end the relationship. But to add insult to injury by suddenly and immediately hooking up with a less-than-desirable man shows a lack of character. You already said she had a track record of finding not-so-good men.
I hope her jilted fiance finds a wonderful and stable girl who won't hurt him as badly as your friend did. I lived through a very similar situation with my husband's best friend a chick he was engaged to. She left him in almost the same fashion. Within two months she was trying to get our friend back...saying she made a mistake and she wasn't sure about marriage and all of that. But the damage had already been done. When people hurt other people in that callous fashion it chills the heart to the bone.


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## han (Oct 23, 2006)

Originally Posted by *mintesa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif I get your point, I understand it as, that they were not ment to be. But how do you fall out of love with someone you have loved... I mean the last two years he was her love.... maybe I am thinking about this too much. It's just scary, it's like, What if my guy walks out on me all in a sudden. Maybe i should stop thinking...

yes it is a scary thought but it does happen all the time people who fall in and out of love i wish i could exsplain how and why but i cant it just kinda happens either your meant to be or your not but if two peole love each other equaly then it works i have known of people who werent in love to stay in the relationship for kid's money or what ever but i couldnt i think its unfair to myself and the other person


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## mintesa (Oct 23, 2006)

so anyway i called my friend to check up on her.

she got her things today at her xfiances place. she said he was very sad, and that he is looking for a new place.

oh and i forgot to tell you guys. when she told me that they broke up, and they are both gonna leave the apartment, she asked me if I and gunnar want to move in there (since it was cheap and we were looking for something, but found something) and I was just "Ummm, eee, no"

So anyway, stupid question, but when the time was right I asked her anyway "So you two are together now?" and she was like "hehehe, yessss giggles"... Then she said oh you have to meet him...

So I will probably have to meet this new guy next week (Movies with work friends and Gunnar)... I can do it, but I dont even wanna tell Gunnar (my fiance, he is gonna flip for sure :S, i will just not tell him)

So and, they are gonna look for a new place together now, since they think his place right now is too little...

I still hope that this will all just end well somehow...

thank you for listening to me guys.... I guess I'm a love junky or what...


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## SierraWren (Oct 23, 2006)

Originally Posted by *BrazenBrunhilda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif Unfortunately, some people, no matter how sweet or intelligent or loving they are, don't have the common sense God gave a dung beetle. Maybe she is one of those women who likes living life on the edge. Maybe she needs to be miserable with a worthless man to feel better about herself. I have no idea why she would do something as rash and imprudent as what she did, but you are being a good friend. I know it must be hard to watch her life play out like this, but there is nothing you can do about it...and you understand that. If she wants to be silly and shack up with a dried up old man, I guess she will have to reap the consquences of such a foolhardy and immature action. First of all, to be so judgemental of Mintesa's friend,a woman you have never met, is,I'm sorry,imo not helpful: judgementalness after all always says far more about the judger than the person whom he or she judges. And the idea that any woman needs to "be miserable" and paired "with a worthless man to feel better about herself",even if meant sarcastically, is not a funny or compassionate thing to make light of, as there are, unfortunately, millions of women who ARE self-debased on every level, often by physical abuse, and by truly sadistic men who too easily find their overtly vulnerable victims. But the idea that any woman feels "better" about herself,from living in such a way, is contempteous and insulting. As a domestic violence abuse survivor,I must take issue both with the content of your response and to its overall tone. Of course, I understand there is no hint of a suggestion, thank God, that Mintessa's friend is being physically abused, but women who are used to and often seem to choose to be with men who are not good to them often suffer from a host of deeper, fiercer demons, and their "choices" to be with men who consistently and/or ultimately make them suffer, usually reflect neither their "foolhardiness" or "silliness" but darker, more personal, sometimes self-destructive underlying reasons. The lives of other women, of all kinds, including psycohlogically and physically abused women, imo, should not be summed up and made light of (and in doing so, be condemned and dismissed).I am reacting in part to another thread in which it seemed to me you felt that an abused woman,more or less, had no sense, or strength; that any sensible strong woman would very simply get up from an abusive situation and walk out.In real life, however, is it not always so easy. It is so,so much more complicated than what you had chosen to surmise.Anyway, Mintesa: I have no doubt you are a wonderful friend. I also don't think you should hold yoursef emotionally responsible for what happened, as you seem to still, slightly. Can you comfortably continue to remain friends with your friend's ex boyfriend?It sounds like he could use your support now--that you right now might feel even closer to him than to her. As for your friend---I think she may be going through a lot of unhappiness lately, things she can't talk of even to you or to yourself, and so she might be acting out in a self-destructive and a destuctive manner...If ever a time arises between the 2 of you im which you feel like you might be able to apeak to her on a more intimate level,as in asking her if something has been bothering her a lot lately, etc, I know,of course, it'll be hard, but you might want to try and take it....Being her friend also doesn't mean you have to lie to her:If you DON'T feel this older bus driver is right for her, you have every right, for both your sakes,to say so.She may be upset but as her friend, your opinion matters to her! And you matter to her--you DO have some influence in her life, then. Remember that, when you are feeling helpless over an external situation(new boyfriend,etc.)it sounds like someone she will always come back to.

Plus, be good to yourself!!!This is a hard time for you so you need to take extra good care of yourself. If you are feeling like doing so, keep us updated.


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## BrazenBrunhilda (Oct 23, 2006)

Originally Posted by *SierraWren* /img/forum/go_quote.gif First of all, to be so judgemental of Mintesa's friend,a woman you have never met, is,I'm sorry,imo not helpful: judgementalness after all always says far more about the judger than the person whom he or she judges. And the idea that any woman needs to "be miserable" and paired "with a worthless man to feel better about herself",even if meant sarcastically, is not a funny or compassionate thing to make light of, as there are, unfortunately, millions of women who ARE self-debased on every level, often by physical abuse, and by truly sadistic men who too easily find their overtly vulnerable victims. But the idea that any woman feels "better" about herself,from living in such a way, is contempteous and insulting. As a domestic violence abuse survivor,I must take issue both with the content of your response and to its overall tone. Of course, I understand there is no hint of a suggestion, thank God, that Mintessa's friend is being physically abused, but women who are used to and often seem to choose to be with men who are not good to them often suffer from a host of deeper, fiercer demons, and their "choices" to be with men who consistently and/or ultimately make them suffer, usually reflect neither their "foolhardiness" or "silliness" but darker, more personal, sometimes self-destructive underlying reasons. The lives of other women, of all kinds, including psycohlogically and physically abused women, imo, should not be summed up and made light of (and in doing so, be condemned and dismissed).I am reacting in part to another thread in which it seemed to me you felt that an abused woman,more or less, had no sense, or strength; that any sensible strong woman would very simply get up from an abusive situation and walk out.In real life, however, is it not always so easy. It is so,so much more complicated than what you had chosen to surmise.Anyway, Mintesa: I have no doubt you are a wonderful friend. I also don't think you should hold yoursef emotionally responsible for what happened, as you seem to still, slightly. Can you comfortably continue to remain friends with your friend's ex boyfriend?It sounds like he could use your support now--that you right now might feel even closer to him than to her. As for your friend---I think she may be going through a lot of unhappiness lately, things she can't talk of even to you or to yourself, and so she might be acting out in a self-destructive and a destuctive manner...If ever a time arises between the 2 of you im which you feel like you might be able to apeak to her on a more intimate level,as in asking her if something has been bothering her a lot lately, etc, I know,of course, it'll be hard, but you might want to try and take it....Being her friend also doesn't mean you have to lie to her:If you DON'T feel this older bus driver is right for her, you have every right, for both your sakes,to say so.She may be upset but as her friend, your opinion matters to her! And you matter to her--you DO have some influence in her life, then. Remember that, when you are feeling helpless over an external situation(new boyfriend,etc.)it sounds like someone she will always come back to.

Plus, be good to yourself!!!This is a hard time for you so you need to take extra good care of yourself. If you are feeling like doing so, keep us updated.

I understand what you saying. But from my side of the coin, I still have a problem with those who do not...oh hell...look, I lived with watching my mother being beaten and raped within an inch of life for over 15 years. She did not care about what it was doing to her child, herself, or to those around her. She took no responsibility for her actions and refused to help herself or allow anyone else to help her. So, there she went, down the road of life, in turn abusing her daughter, me, with her ineffectivness as a mother and her refusal to accept responsibility for another soul and allowing him to abuse me. So if I sound callous about abused women, I am sorry. I have been through hell and back and have seen firsthand what can happen when people do not take personal responsibility for themselves. I have a serious problem with abusers...whether they are verbal, emotional, or physical abusers. The sub-human who beat my mother so bad she was put in the hospital for six weeks should have been dealt with...but he wasn't. And in turn she put my life in danger when she went back to him for more abuse. I had the power and the strength to shed this evil from me. It was either him, my mother, or me. I chose me. It wasn't until he shot her twice in the chest that she turned her life around. I have my opinion, and so does everyone else. And God love everyone for it. I just happened to have enough and made it through. 
And psychologically, some women do feel better when they are miserable. Some people enjoy living in high drama. I was not being sarcastic or remotely funny, btw.

And I will have to read it again but I don't remember seeing anything in the original thread about her friend being beat up by her fiance.


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## jennycateyez (Oct 23, 2006)

well now she cant camplain she never had anybody good because she left him. i wish her the best.


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## han (Oct 24, 2006)

Originally Posted by *BrazenBrunhilda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am telling you...there are some people that just don't think about anything but themselves...look how many people her actions have hurt. Not to mention the damage she is doing to her own life. She sounds more like a user or insensitive hedonist than a woman who decided to walk away from a pending marriage because she had cold feet or fell out of love. Why? Because most people who decide to leave a mate at the altar do it for more noble reasons...not because they hooked up with someone else. so what was she suppose to do stay with a guy she didnt want to be with anymore to keep every one happy and her be unhappy how fair is that my parents divorce and it was painful to me and both had there faults but you know that was there relationship and there choice to be in it or not i didnt side with either or judge i was there for them both which help ease the pain for me and really that's all you can do unless you want and choose to walk around judgeing angry or bitter hell no not me life is too short for all that


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## BrazenBrunhilda (Oct 24, 2006)

Originally Posted by *han* /img/forum/go_quote.gif so what was she suppose to do stay with a guy she didnt want to be with anymore to keep every one happy and her be unhappy how fair is that my parents divorce and it was painful to me and both had there faults but you know that was there relationship and there choice to be in it or not i didnt side with either or judge i was there for them both which help ease the pain for me and really that's all you can do unless you want and choose to walk around judgeing angry or bitter hell no not me life is too short for all that Okay, that is not even an issue with me. She has every right to leave anyone for any reason. MY beef was simply that I don't think she was very kind in the WAY she did it...NOT that she DID it. God, I have left plenty of men because the relationship did not work. Big hairy deal. My point was that this woman has a track record of picking inappropriate men, she up and suddenly left the one she had for a n'er do well and apparently could less about the heartbreak she left in her wake. I don't care who she does or who she does it with. I don't care why she broke up with her fiance. It is her callous actions that is upsetting people...with good reason.


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## luxotika (Oct 24, 2006)

Originally Posted by *Aquilah* /img/forum/go_quote.gif It doesn't make sense... Maybe they truly did grow apart, or maybe the thought of something new took hold of her. Possibly there was an excitement between her and this new guy that she hadn't felt with Sverri lately. I think sometimes we get too comfortable in our relationship that we take things for granted, and forget to appreciate one another. We forget to ensure the spark is still there and lasts. Unfortunately, I think she'll be kicking herself in the @$$ sometime soon... Or maybe it'll last with this dude. Who knows?! BUT, if that's the case, and she just moved out on a long-term relationship to suit some whim of fancy, then Sverri deserves better at the same time! That's just MHO though... Couldn't have said it any better myself!


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## SierraWren (Oct 24, 2006)

And I will have to read it again but I don't remember seeing anything in the original thread about her friend being beat up by her fiance.

There is nothing in this original thread about "her friend being beat up by her fiance." I never made the statement that there was. What I am refering to is another thread several months ago, by/about a woman who WAS being savagely beaten and otherwise abused, to which you responded as though the woman,herself,was at fault for not leaving her abuser;as not being strong enough. How can you speak for/about ALL abused women? Your own experience sounds so horrific and devastating. I think it has both scarred you and made you much stronger--but of course I don't know.(I don't know you.) In the same vein, neither does your personal abuse experience make you the final- word authority on all victims of abuse, on their characters and principles, in any way. (One thing which I do agree with you about is that abusers are monsters .I would have been strangled to death at the hands of my ex if not for a neighbor having overheard screaming earlier, and having, a surprise to herself, saved my life.) But there are many, many circumstances which can prevent the abused from leaving monsters. All I'm going to say,finally, is this: Please: If you are going to try and presume to speak for us all, on abuse, please leave me out of it. You are no more authority in my life or other's than I am in your's.


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## CuTeLiCiOuS (Oct 24, 2006)

Originally Posted by *mintesa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif I get your point, I understand it as, that they were not ment to be. But how do you fall out of love with someone you have loved... I mean the last two years he was her love.... maybe I am thinking about this too much. It's just scary, it's like, What if my guy walks out on me all in a sudden. Maybe i should stop thinking...

I think this is the reason along with being dissapointed with your freind and sad for survei that you are so shooked by this. You know sometimes people do iditoic things. She is not you.
Just be there for her and him. Make sure she is doing alright with that new guy, check up on her. And for your freind Survi be there for him. Both of them. Both of them deserved to be in a loving and healthy relationship. After things cool down ask her why she did it they way she did. I hope you feel better min



You are a great freind.


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## BrazenBrunhilda (Oct 24, 2006)

Originally Posted by *SierraWren* /img/forum/go_quote.gif And I will have to read it again but I don't remember seeing anything in the original thread about her friend being beat up by her fiance. There is nothing in this original thread about "her friend being beat up by her fiance." I never made the statement that there was. What I am refering to is another thread several months ago, by/about a woman who WAS being savagely beaten and otherwise abused, to which you responded as though the woman,herself,was at fault for not leaving her abuser;as not being strong enough. How can you speak for/about ALL abused women? Your own experience sounds so horrific and devastating. I think it has both scarred you and made you much stronger--but of course I don't know.(I don't know you.) In the same vein, neither does your personal abuse experience make you the final- word authority on all victims of abuse, on their characters and principles, in any way. (One thing which I do agree with you about is that abusers are monsters .I would have been strangled to death at the hands of my ex if not for a neighbor having overheard screaming earlier, and having, a surprise to herself, saved my life.) But there are many, many circumstances which can prevent the abused from leaving monsters. All I'm going to say,finally, is this: Please: If you are going to try and presume to speak for us all, on abuse, please leave me out of it. You are no more authority in my life or other's than I am in your's.
******Fine. But don't act as though ALL abused women all helpless to their situations. When women are abused they are not the only ones who get hurt. We all make our own choices...from the first hit, the first slap, the first push. The question is, is one willing to roll over and take it or does she stand up and fight for her own life, liberty, and children? *

*And your line, "What I am refering to is another thread several months ago, by/about a woman who WAS being savagely beaten and otherwise abused, to which you responded as though the woman,herself,was at fault for not leaving her abuser;as not being strong enough." The operative phrase is "...you responded as though..." I never said she was at fault, and I resent the implication I did just becuase you insist on twisting the meaning of my words to suit your argument. In this day and age there are shelters and free counseling and a myriad of other options available to women.*

*In the same token, you should never presume to speak for all abused women, either. This dialogue goes both ways. And please do not assume that a person is "surmising" about a subject until you know where she has come from. We were once cool with each other, so I am going to end this debate now...we will never agree...and that is both of our God given rights. Peace out.*


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## SierraWren (Oct 24, 2006)

Originally Posted by *BrazenBrunhilda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif There is nothing in this original thread about "her friend being beat up by her fiance." I never made the statement that there was. What I am refering to is another thread several months ago, by/about a woman who WAS being savagely beaten and otherwise abused, to which you responded as though the woman,herself,was at fault for not leaving her abuser;as not being strong enough. How can you speak for/about ALL abused women? Your own experience sounds so horrific and devastating. I think it has both scarred you and made you much stronger--but of course I don't know.(I don't know you.) In the same vein, neither does your personal abuse experience make you the final- word authority on all victims of abuse, on their characters and principles, in any way. (One thing which I do agree with you about is that abusers are monsters .I would have been strangled to death at the hands of my ex if not for a neighbor having overheard screaming earlier, and having, a surprise to herself, saved my life.) But there are many, many circumstances which can prevent the abused from leaving monsters. All I'm going to say,finally, is this: Please: If you are going to try and presume to speak for us all, on abuse, please leave me out of it. You are no more authority in my life or other's than I am in your's. ******Fine. But don't act as though ALL abused women all helpless to their situations. When women are abused they are not the only ones who get hurt. We all make our own choices...from the first hit, the first slap, the first push. The question is, is one willing to roll over and take it or does she stand up and fight for her own life, liberty, and children? *
*And your line, "What I am refering to is another thread several months ago, by/about a woman who WAS being savagely beaten and otherwise abused, to which you responded as though the woman,herself,was at fault for not leaving her abuser;as not being strong enough." The operative phrase is "...you responded as though..." I never said she was at fault, and I resent the implication I did just becuase you insist on twisting the meaning of my words to suit your argument. In this day and age there are shelters and free counseling and a myriad of other options available to women.*

*In the same token, you should never presume to speak for all abused women, either. This dialogue goes both ways. And please do not assume that a person is "surmising" about a subject until you know where she has come from. We were once cool with each other, so I am going to end this debate now...we will never agree...and that is both of our God given rights. Peace out.*

Once again,please do not speak for me. Once again, you got it wrong about me: nowhere did I say or imply that abuse victims should not fight back for themselves! That is both a frightening and an appalling concept to me: not standing up for oneself. I find it ironic that you tell me not to conclude anything about a subject unti you know where she has come from. You know virtually nothing of my many attempted,and severely punished, attempts at escape from an abuser, yet you put the concept of not fighting back for abusers into my words. All I said was that every's woman's experience with abuse is separate--I do not like to judge them. One reason is, far too many women who do not,for varied reasons,manage to escape for years,find that,when they finally do get out,the world itself is a harsh place, at once full of people-- many meant to help them,like some doctors, health care counselours--and others, who do nothing but judge,reproach and codemn them for not having gotten out sooner. I don't believe in that type of extra and extended social punishment for abuse survivors. But I am in no way for non-reacting to any form of abuse, or pacificism towards it. I'm amazed if you think so,or that (knowing none fully but myself) I would ever presume to speak for another woman who has been abused.

Of course you have every right to your opinion about abuse,I never said or believed that you didn't. It is an important point of view b/c of your experience, and it truly matters--as do others.

Mintesa, I am extremely sorry for the hijacking of your personal thread.


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## girl_geek (Oct 25, 2006)

Originally Posted by *mintesa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif I get your point, I understand it as, that they were not ment to be. But how do you fall out of love with someone you have loved... I mean the last two years he was her love.... maybe I am thinking about this too much. It's just scary, it's like, What if my guy walks out on me all in a sudden. Maybe i should stop thinking...

Well, I won't even try to guess why your friend left her fiance, since I don't know her or the guys involved.... but I wanted to comment on your "falling out of love" phrase. I personally don't think you can "fall out of love" unless you want to -- I believe that love is not just emotions and feelings and romance, but also a conscious commitment to that person. Every relationship hits a point where those feelings disappear, and you don't "feel" in love. That's when you need that commitment to make the relationship continue, otherwise it's easy to just think "Oh, we're not in love anymore, so let's just break up"!
Perhaps your friend just didn't have that commitment, so when she started to loose all those happy, romantic feelings, she panicked and left? I know that many relationships tend to suffer around the two-year mark -- that's usually when the "honeymoon phase" is over and you start seeing all the little annoying things about your partner that you had previously thought were cute, or if nothing else you just start getting too comfortable and lose the romance unless you make an effort to continue with it. Perhaps the thrill of a new relationship with the bus driver brought back those emotions your friend had lost with her fiance? Again, I don't know, this is just total speculation! This theory doesn't take into account her preference for "bad boys", since that may also have something to do with her decision to leave.

But I think the others have given good advice -- continue to be a good friend (to both her and the fiance, if possible, since they may both need you at some time or another), and otherwise there's probably not a whole lot else you can do -- you can't make your friend go back to her fiance, even if that would be the best choice for her


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## mintesa (Oct 25, 2006)

Originally Posted by *girl_geek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, I won't even try to guess why your friend left her fiance, since I don't know her or the guys involved.... but I wanted to comment on your "falling out of love" phrase. I personally don't think you can "fall out of love" unless you want to -- I believe that love is not just emotions and feelings and romance, but also a conscious commitment to that person. Every relationship hits a point where those feelings disappear, and you don't "feel" in love. That's when you need that commitment to make the relationship continue, otherwise it's easy to just think "Oh, we're not in love anymore, so let's just break up"!
Perhaps your friend just didn't have that commitment, so when she started to loose all those happy, romantic feelings, she panicked and left? I know that many relationships tend to suffer around the two-year mark -- that's usually when the "honeymoon phase" is over and you start seeing all the little annoying things about your partner that you had previously thought were cute, or if nothing else you just start getting too comfortable and lose the romance unless you make an effort to continue with it. Perhaps the thrill of a new relationship with the bus driver brought back those emotions your friend had lost with her fiance? Again, I don't know, this is just total speculation! This theory doesn't take into account her preference for "bad boys", since that may also have something to do with her decision to leave.

But I think the others have given good advice -- continue to be a good friend (to both her and the fiance, if possible, since they may both need you at some time or another), and otherwise there's probably not a whole lot else you can do -- you can't make your friend go back to her fiance, even if that would be the best choice for her





yeah that makes also sense, that the commitment was not there. and i agree with you about love, love is more, like the longer you have lived together the more love there is, the other stuff is just romance stuff, more loads of it in the beginning of the relationship. That reminds me of what my friend said, that at the end they were just like brothers and sisters. Im not really that sure what that means, since I have no brother and my only sister is 9 years old. But I know that Gunnar is my bestfriend, and thats how i like it.

Yeah I guess we are just all different people. And since you mentioned about the commitment part, I do realize that my fiance actually has that part, so I feel a lot better.

As for the update, Gunnar and I will meet my friend and her new guy in the movies on tuesday, I will keep you updated and probably write a whole page about this new guy





I have not really heard from sverrir since we are not close at all.... I am scared if I would contact him it wouldnt really help him at all, I will just remind him of her, since she is my very close friend.


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## Aquilah (Oct 25, 2006)

I would try to contact him anyway... No point in losing him as a friend... That's just IMHO though. Do keep us updated!


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## girl_geek (Oct 26, 2006)

Originally Posted by *mintesa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have not really heard from sverrir since we are not close at all.... I am scared if I would contact him it wouldnt really help him at all, I will just remind him of her, since she is my very close friend. OK, I was thinking you were closer to the guy -- if I were you, I would be hesitant to contact him too! He will probably do better getting support from his own friends


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## _withoutYou (Oct 27, 2006)

Never leave the one you love for the one you like because the one you like will leave you for the one they love.

I agree with BrazenBrunhilda on this.


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## han (Oct 27, 2006)

Originally Posted by *_withoutYou* /img/forum/go_quote.gif Never leave the one you love for the one you like because the one you like will leave you for the one they love.
I agree with BrazenBrunhilda on this.

i think if she truely and deeply loved him to begin with she wouldnt of left that's why i said she probley wasnt in love anymore


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## mintesa (Oct 29, 2006)

Hello,

So I met my friend today. And we talked a lot, we were walking around in the cold for 2hours and also had coffee.

Anyway, she said that her sister is very angry at her, and that she doesnt wanna meet the new guy at all. Her parents are still angry. She wants to go with her new BF, Stefan, to meet them in April. Her sister asked stuff like, why the hell did she move in with that guy right away? It totally looks like she left Sverrir for this Stefan. My friends responce to that was that rent is so high right now, so she had to move in with stefan. She also said that it is the only way to find out, if they are good together.

So new things I found about this new guy.

He has 3 kids, I with a woman from here, And then two ones with a woman from india, they are in india, he was married to her for 7 years. The one who is here, is 13 years old and sleeps over on weekends. His job right now is driving the Trash truck (i dont know the term in english, but the track that picks up trash)

So we talked more about how the last weeks went with her X Sverrir. She said he got depressed during his Final Project ( her sister said she should have sticked by him through his difficult time). She said he was being difficult, not talking to her, not interested in sex. She always asking him to tell her whats wrong. Then Stefan showed up. Then he got even more depressed. And then after 3 weeks she had enough and couldnt do it anymore, eventhough she loved him with all her heart.

Well my opinion on all of this was that you should stick by the one you love during the difficult times. Times do get better. I didnt say that to her though.

Anyway, the I drove her home, and she wanted me to meet Stefan. So she called him while in the car to check if he was home. I didnt really hear what, but I think he asked something like "why does she have to come" And she said "So she can meet my BF".

So I went inside their place anyway. It was a total guy place, messy






Then I saw the little couch his daughter has to sleep on during weekends. Old stretched leather couch. They are gonna move out though into a bigger place so his daughter can have a room when she comes over (that was my friends idea). There were also hundreths of medals over the place, coz he is a marathon runner.

So then finally he came home after like 5 minutes. (he looks like this actor, i dont remember his name) He looks at me like a maggot. Like, why the hell is that thing in my apartment. No smile at all. Then he askes, "How do you know each other?" "How long have you known each other". Like as if he is checking if I am actually a good friend of my friend. Then he like waits like, ok you can go now. So I just say "well I have to go now" "See you guys" And he just goes into the kitchen.

I dont know men, the hell that was a weirdo man! I havent called my friend yet though to check up and ask if he was angry that I was there....

Well anyway, I guess that was a great start.


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## han (Oct 29, 2006)

sorry i know that must of been akward for you and i really dont know what to think about your friend cause i dont know her but maybe when the newness of the sex wears off and reality kicks in that this guy has other people to support and give attention to she will come to her senses i cant imagine walking out on some one that you love with all your heart just cause there depressed and your not getting sex me and my husband have went through alot together and thats what makes us stronger i wonder how old is your friend thanks for updateing us take care


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## Cool Kitten (Oct 30, 2006)

whoa, this new guy is bad news...And if your friend has dumped her fiance after only 3 weeks of knowing the new guy, and because he was having rough time with this school...Damn. She's lying to you, she didn't love him at all. Anyone who can so carelessly walk out on a loved one when they're most needed doesn't deserve to be in a good relationship.

What goes around comes around, and she's going to get major payback with the new guy. From what you said she deserves every bit of crap he's going to dish out to her.


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## mintesa (Nov 4, 2006)

i met my friend today... she is very happy....

well as for the update, she is pregnant with her x's baby. But the new guy doesnt mind. He will go with her to the ultrasounds and stuff. the x is a little sad about it (since they were trying for a baby, but it never happened, and now it had to happen like this)

Her sister is still angry at her. and she doesnt want to tell her family that she is pregnant yet.

She is a little scared since the 1st 3 months are always dangerous, so she wants to tell the least people. and tell her family in the 3rd month then. but she is very happy to finally be pregnant.

Me too, im very excited.


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## jessimau (Nov 5, 2006)

That's wonderful that she's pregnant, but SO sad at the same time. I hope she gives her ex a chance to be involved in the baby's life. She may come to realize what a mistake she's made, but if her ex has tendencies towards depression and she can't deal with it, then he's better off without her; he needs someone who can support him through the tough times. I hope this situation gets less messy, for the baby's sake!


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## mintesa (Nov 5, 2006)

She told me that she wants her x to be involved with the baby. but most likely not much in the first months, since she cant really bring the baby out of the house that often. but if he doesnt mind visiting them, then it is no problem...

I still wish though that they get back together... just a wish.... but yea i need a reality check :S


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## han (Nov 5, 2006)

congrats on your friend haveing a baby hope it brings joy to her and her ex tell her it's very important to let him be part of the babys life if he is willing to cause boyfriends come and go and i think its just as important for him to bond with the baby in those first few months and she will have to take her baby out alot the first couple months to doctors ect and let the ex be a part of that good luck to you all and your a sweet friend by the way


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## StrangerNMist (Nov 6, 2006)

Wow. Sometimes people think that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, and they leap over it to see if it is, in fact MUCH GREENER. I agree that your friend shouldn't have taken that leap, because it sounds like she left a really great guy for a really big MORON! He sounds like some kind of paranoid control freak, as well as a player.

It's a pretty bittersweet moment, especially if she is pregnant with her ex's baby - and to think they were trying for the longest time! It may be a little bit late, but I hope that in time she'll realize what she's lost. I'm not saying she's going to get it back, but I'm pretty sure she's going to regret not staying with him...

I can only wish the best for all the people in this situation, and I hope that everyone is able to get their bearings and set things straight.


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## geebers (Nov 6, 2006)

Wow what an intense thread. Everyone already said it - you can't force her to make decisions - she will do what she wants and besides you really do not know what was going on in that relationship. If she left him for a guy who is worse than obviously the relationship must not have been perfect - it probably just SEEMED that way. So I would just be there for her. Even if you tell her what a loser that guy is - she won't listen and will side with him anyway.

Now that she is having a child, focus on being a positive influence for the baby - that is far more important than her relationship issues.


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## mintesa (Nov 6, 2006)

Originally Posted by *geebers* /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wow what an intense thread. Everyone already said it - you can't force her to make decisions - she will do what she wants and besides you really do not know what was going on in that relationship. If she left him for a guy who is worse than obviously the relationship must not have been perfect - it probably just SEEMED that way. So I would just be there for her. Even if you tell her what a loser that guy is - she won't listen and will side with him anyway. Now that she is having a child, focus on being a positive influence for the baby - that is far more important than her relationship issues.

I am not planning to tell her that the guy is a looser. I dont know if he is a looser, just met him ones. I just come to this thread to release my worries, since I dont wanna tell that to my friend.


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