# Tired of spanking!



## Geek (Jun 7, 2005)

Lets start up some controversy!






No not me! We do not spank our kids, never have and never will. THIS IS A NOVEL ALERT!!! You girls with NO kids, might not be able to relate.........Ok...I am on a soap box here...here me out! I am tired of hearing about either kids who GET spanked or parents who SPANK and justify it with hilarious means(read articles below). I am just plain and simply sick of it. I just really am against it. Parents losing control of them selves teaches the kid you have lost control even more! MUCH more effective ways of disciplining your children. Just seems so....OLD SCHOOL. There is MUCH data out there if you care to read up on spanking rights and wrongs. I want to just post some data that I we have on our other board about spanking:

Article #1

*10 REASONS NOT TO HIT YOUR CHILD*

*1. HITTING MODELS HITTING *

There is a classic story about the mother who believed in spanking as a necessary part of discipline until one day she observed her three- year-old daughter hitting her one-year-old son. When confronted, her daughter said, "I'm just playing mommy." This mother never spanked another child.Children love to imitate, especially people whom they love and respect. They perceive that it's okay for them to do whatever you do. Parents, remember, you are bringing up someone else's mother or father, and wife or husband. The same discipline techniques you employ with your children are the ones they are most likely to carry on in their own parenting. The family is a training camp for teaching children how to handle conflicts. Studies show that children from spanking families are more likely to use aggression to handle conflicts when they become adults.

Spanking demonstrates that it's all right for people to hit people, and especially for big people to hit little people, and stronger people to hit weaker people. Children learn that when you have a problem you solve it with a good swat. A child whose behavior is controlled by spanking is likely to carry on this mode of interaction into other relationships with siblings and peers, and eventually a spouse and offspring.

But, you say, "I don't spank my child that often or that hard. Most of the time I show him lots of love and gentleness. An occasional swat on the bottom won't bother him." This rationalization holds true for some children, but other children remember spanking messages more than nurturing ones. You may have a hug-hit ratio of 100:1 in your home, but you run the risk of your child remembering and being influenced more by the one hit than the 100 hugs, especially if that hit was delivered in anger or unjustly, which happens all too often.

Physical punishment shows that it's all right to vent your anger or right a wrong by hitting other people. This is why the parent's attitude during the spanking leaves as great an impression as the swat itself. How to control one's angry impulses (swat control) is one of the things you are trying to teach your children. Spanking sabotages this teaching. Spanking guidelines usually give the warning to never spank in anger. If this guideline were to be faithfully observed 99 percent of spanking wouldn't occur, because once the parent has calmed down he or she can come up with a more appropriate method of correction.

*VERBAL AND EMOTIONAL "HITTING" *

Physical hitting is not the only way to cross the line into abuse. Everything we say about physical punishment pertains to emotional/verbal punishment as well. Tongue-lashing and name-calling tirades can actually harm a child more psychologically. Emotional abuse can be very subtle and even self-righteous. Threats to coerce a child to cooperate can touch on his worst fearâ€”abandonment. ("I'm leaving if you don't behave.") Often threats of abandonment are implied giving the child the message that you can't stand being with her or a smack of emotional abandonment (by letting her know you are withdrawing your love, refusing to speak to her or saying you don't like her if she continues to displease you). Scars on the mind may last longer than scars on the body.

*2. HITTING DEVALUES THE CHILD *

The child's self-image begins with how he perceives that others â€“ especially his parents â€“ perceive him Even in the most loving homes, spanking gives a confusing message, especially to a child too young to understand the reason for the whack. Parents spend a lot of time building up their baby or child's sense of being valued, helping the child feel "good." Then the child breaks a glass, you spank, and he feels, "I must be bad."

Even a guilt-relieving hug from a parent after a spank doesn't remove the sting. The child is likely to feel the hit, inside and out, long after the hug. Most children put in this situation will hug to ask for mercy. "If I hug him, daddy will stop hitting me." When spanking is repeated over and over, one message is driven home to the child, "You are weak and defenseless."

Joan, a loving mother, sincerely believed that spanking was a parental right and obligation needed to turn out an obedient child. She felt spanking was "for the child's own good." After several months of spank-controlled discipline, her toddler became withdrawn. She would notice him playing alone in the corner, not interested in playmates, and avoiding eye contact with her. He had lost his previous sparkle. Outwardly he was a "good boy." Inwardly, Spencer thought he was a bad boy. He didn't feel right and he didn't act right. Spanking made him feel smaller and weaker, overpowered by people bigger than him.

*SLAPPING HANDS *

How tempting it is to slap those daring little hands! Many parents do it without thinking, but consider the consequences. Maria Montessori, one of the earliest opponents of slapping children's hands, believed that children's hands are tools for exploring, an extension of the child's natural curiosity. Slapping them sends a powerful negative message. Sensitive parents we have interviewed all agree that the hands should be off-limits for physical punishment. Research supports this idea. Psychologists studied a group of sixteen fourteen-month-olds playing with their mothers. When one group of toddlers tried to grab a forbidden object, they received a slap on the hand; the other group of toddlers did not receive physical punishment. In follow-up studies of these children seven months later, the punished babies were found to be less skilled at exploring their environment. Better to separate the child from the object or supervise his exploration and leave little hands unhurt.

*3. HITTING DEVALUES THE PARENT *

Parents who spank-control or otherwise abusively punish their children often feel devalued themselves because deep down they don't feel right about their way of discipline. Often they spank (or yell) in desperation because they don't know what else to do, but afterward feel more powerless when they find it doesn't work. As one mother who dropped spanking from her correction list put it, "I won the battle, but lost the war. My child now fears me, and I feel I've lost something precious."

Spanking also devalues the role of a parent. Being an authority figure means you are trusted and respected, but not feared. Lasting authority cannot be based on fear. Parents or other caregivers who repeatedly use spanking to control children enter into a lose-lose situation. Not only does the child lose respect for the parent, but the parents also lose out because they develop a spanking mindset and have fewer alternatives to spanking. The parent has fewer preplanned, experience-tested strategies to divert potential behavior, so the child misbehaves more, which calls for more spanking. This child is not being taught to develop inner control.

Hitting devalues the parent-child relationship. Corporal punishment puts a distance between the spanker and the spankee. This distance is especially troubling in home situations where the parent-child relationship may already be strained, such as single-parent homes or blended families. While some children are forgivingly resilient and bounce back without a negative impression on mind or body, for others it's hard to love the hand that hits them.

*4. HITTING MAY LEAD TO ABUSE *

Punishment escalates. Once you begin punishing a child "a little bit," where do you stop? A toddler reaches for a forbidden glass. You tap the hand as a reminder not to touch. He reaches again, you swat the hand. After withdrawing his hand briefly, he once again grabs grandmother's valuable vase. You hit the hand harder. You've begun a game no one can win. The issue then becomes who's strongerâ€”your child's will or your handâ€”not the problem of touching the vase. What do you do now? Hit harder and harder until the child's hand is so sore he can't possibly continue to "disobey?" The danger of beginning corporal punishment in the first place is that you may feel you have to bring out bigger guns: your hand becomes a fist, the switch becomes a belt, the folded newspaper becomes a wooden spoon, and now what began as seemingly innocent escalates into child abuse. Punishment sets the stage for child abuse. Parents who are programmed to punish set themselves up for punishing harder, mainly because they have not learned alternatives and click immediately into the punishment mode when their child misbehaves.

*5. HITTING DOES NOT IMPROVE BEHAVIOR *

Many times we have heard parents say, "The more we spank the more he misbehaves." Spanking makes a child's behavior worse, not better. Here's why. Remember the basis for promoting desirable behavior: The child who feels right acts right. Spanking undermines this principle. A child who is hit feels wrong inside and this shows up in his behavior. The more he misbehaves, the more he gets spanked and the worse he feels. The cycle continues. We want the child to know that he did wrong, and to feel remorse, but to still believe that he is a person who has value.

The Cycle of Misbehavior

Misbehavior Worse behavior Spanking Decreased self-esteem, anger

One of the goals of disciplinary action is to stop the misbehavior immediately, and spanking may do that. It is more important to create the conviction within the child that he doesn't want to repeat the misbehavior (i.e, internal rather than external control). One of the reasons for the ineffectiveness of spanking in creating internal controls is that during and immediately after the spanking, the child is so preoccupied with the perceived injustice of the physical punishment (or maybe the degree of it he's getting) that he "forgets" the reason for which he was spanked. Sitting down with him and talking after the spanking to be sure he's aware of what he did can be done just as well (if not better) without the spanking part. Alternatives to spanking can be much more thought-and-conscience-provoking for a child, but they may take more time and energy from the parent. This brings up a main reason why some parents lean toward spankingâ€”it's easier.

*6. HITTING IS ACTUALLY NOT BIBLICAL *

Don't use the Bible as an excuse to spank. There is confusion in the ranks of people of Judeo-Christian heritage who, seeking help from the Bible in their effort to raise godly children, believe that God commands them to spank. They take "spare the rod and spoil the child" seriously and fear that if they don't spank, they will commit the sin of losing control of their child. In our counseling experience, we find that these people are devoted parents who love God and love their children, but they misunderstand the concept of the rod.

Rod verses - what they really mean. The following are the biblical verseswhich have caused the greatest confusion:

"Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him." (Prov. 22:15)

"He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him." (Prov. 13:24)

"Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die. Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death." (Prov. 23:13-14)

"The rod of correction imparts wisdom, but a child left to itself disgraces his mother." (Prov. 29:15)

At first glance these verses may sound pro-spanking. But you might consider a different interpretation of these teachings. "Rod" (shebet) means different things in different parts of the Bible. The Hebrew dictionary gives this word various meanings: a stick (for punishment, writing, fighting, ruling, walking, etc.). While the rod could be used for hitting, it was more frequently used for guiding wandering sheep. Shepherds didn't use the rod to beat their sheep - and children are certainly more valuable than sheep. As shepherd-author Philip Keller teaches so well in A Shepherd Looks At Psalm 23, the shepherd's rod was used to fight off prey and the staff was used to gently guide sheep along the right path. ("Your rod and your staff, they comfort me." â€“ Psalm 23:4).

Jewish families we've interviewed, who carefully follow dietary and lifestyle guidelines in the Scripture, do not practice "rod correction" with their children because they do not follow that interpretation of the text.

The book of Proverbs is one of poetry. It is logical that the writer would have used a well-known tool to form an image of authority. We believe that this is the point that God makes about the rod in the Bible â€“ parents take charge of your children. When you re-read the "rod verses," use the concept of parental authority when you come to the word "rod," ratherthan the concept of beating or spanking. It rings true in every instance.

While Christians and Jews believe that the Old Testament is the inspired word of God, it is also a historical text that has been interpreted in many ways over the centuries, sometimes incorrectly in order to support the beliefs of the times. These "rod" verses have been burdened with interpretations about corporal punishment that support human ideas. Other parts of the Bible, especially the New Testament, suggest that respect, authority, and tenderness should be the prevailing attitudes toward children among people of faith.

In the New Testament, Christ modified the traditional eye-for-an-eye system of justice with His turn-the-other-cheek approach. Christ preached gentleness, love, and understanding, and seemed against any harsh use of the rod, as stated by Paul in 1 Cor. 4:21: "Shall I come to you with the whip (rod), or in love and with a gentle spirit?" Paul went on to teach fathers about the importance of not provoking anger in their children (which is what spanking usually does): "Fathers, do not exasperate your children" (Eph. 6:4), and "Fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will be discouraged" (Col. 3:21).

In our opinion, nowhere in the Bible does it say you must spank your child to be a godly parent.

SPARE THE ROD!There are parents who should not spank and children who should not be spanked. Are there factors in your history, your temperament, or your relationship with your child that put you at risk for abusing your child? Are there characteristics in your child that make spanking unwise?


Were you abused as a child? 
Do you lose control of yourself easily? 
Are you spanking more, with fewer results? 
Are you spanking harder? 
Is spanking not working? 
Do you have a high-need child? A strong-willed child? 
Is your child ultrasensitive? 
Is your relationship with your child already distant? 
Are there present situations that are making you angry, such as financial or marital difficulties or a recent job loss? Are there factors that are lowering your own self-confidence?
If the answer to any of these queries is yes, you would be wise to develop a no-spanking mindset in your home and do your best to come up with noncorporal alternatives. If you find you are unable to do this on your own, talk with someone who can help you. 
*7. HITTING PROMOTES ANGER - IN CHILDREN AND IN PARENTS *

Children often perceive punishment as unfair. They are more likely to rebel against corporal punishment than against other disciplinary techniques. Children do not think rationally like adults, but they do have an innate sense of fairnessâ€”though their standards are not the same as adults. This can prevent punishment from working as you hoped it would and can contribute to an angry child. Oftentimes, the sense of unfairness escalates to a feeling of humiliation. When punishment humiliates children they either rebel or withdraw. While spanking may appear to make the child afraid to repeat the misbehavior, it is more likely to make the child fear the spanker.

In our experience, and that of many who have thoroughly researched corporal punishment, children whose behaviors are spank-controlled throughout infancy and childhood may appear outwardly compliant, but inside they are seething with anger. They feel that their personhood has been violated, and they detach themselves from a world they perceive has been unfair to them. They find it difficult to trust, becoming insensitive to a world that has been insensitive to them.

Parents who examine their feelings after spanking often realize that all they have accomplished is to relieve themselves of anger. This impulsive release of anger often becomes addictingâ€”perpetuating a cycle of ineffective discipline. We have found that the best way to prevent ourselves from acting on the impulse to spank is to instill in ourselves two convictions: 1. That we will not spank our children. 2. That we will discipline them. Since we have decided that spanking is not an option, we must seek out better alternatives.

*8. HITTING BRINGS BACK BAD MEMORIES *

A child's memories of being spanked can scar otherwise joyful scenes of growing up. People are more likely to recall traumatic events than pleasant ones. I grew up in a very nurturing home, but I was occasionally and "deservedly" spanked. I vividly remember the willow branch scenes. After my wrongdoing my grandfather would send me to my room and tell me I was going to receive a spanking. I remember looking out the window, seeing him walk across the lawn and take a willow branch from the tree and come back to my room and spank me across the back of my thighs with the branch. The willow branch seemed to be an effective spanking tool because it stung and made an impression upon meâ€” physically and mentally. Although I remember growing up in a loving home, I don't remember specific happy scenes with nearly as much detail as I remember the spanking scenes. I have always thought that one of our goals as parents is to fill our children's memory bank with hundreds, perhaps thousands, of pleasant scenes. It's amazing how the unpleasant memories of spankings can block out those positive memories.

*ABUSIVE HITTING HAS BAD LONG-TERM EFFECTS *

Research has shown that spanking may leave scars deeper and more lasting than a fleeting redness of the bottom. Here is a summary of the research on the long-term effects of corporal punishment:


In a prospective study spanning nineteen years, researchers found that children who were raised in homes with a lot of corporal punishment, turned out to be more antisocial and egocentric, and that physical violence became the accepted norm for these children when they became teenagers and adults. 
College students showed more psychological disturbances if they grew up in a home with less praise, more scolding, more corporal punishment, and more verbal abuse. 
A survey of 679 college students showed that those who recall being spanked as children accepted spanking as a way of discipline and intended to spank their own children. Students who were not spanked as children were significantly less accepting of the practice than those who were spanked. The spanked students also reported remembering that their parents were angry during the spanking; they remembered both the spanking and the attitude with which it was administered. 
Spanking seems to have the most negative long-term effects when it replaces positive communication with the child. Spanking had less damaging long-term effects if given in a loving home and nurturing environment. 
A study of the effects of physical punishment on children's later aggressive behavior showed that the more frequently a child was given physical punishment, the more likely it was that he would behave aggressively toward other family members and peers. Spanking caused less aggression if it was done in an overall nurturing environment and the child was always given a rational explanation of why the spanking occurred. 
A study to determine whether hand slapping had any long-term effects showed that toddlers who were punished with a light slap on the hand showed delayed exploratory development seven months later. 
Adults who received a lot of physical punishment as teenagers had a rate of spouse-beating that was four times greater than those whose parents did not hit them. 
Husbands who grew up in severely violent homes are six times more likely to beat their wives than men raised in non-violent homes. 
More than 1 out of 4 parents who had grown up in a violent home were violent enough to risk seriously injuring their child. 
Studies of prison populations show that most violent criminals grew up in a violent home environment. 
The life history of notorious, violent criminals, murderers, muggers, rapists, etc., are likely to show a history of excessive physical discipline in childhood.
The evidence against spanking is overwhelming. Hundreds of studies all come to the same conclusions: 
1. The more physical punishment a child receives, the more aggressive he or she will become.

2. The more children are spanked, the more likely they will be abusive toward their own children.

3. Spanking plants seeds for later violent behavior.4.Spanking doesn't work.

*10. SPANKING DOESN'T WORK *

Many studies show the futility of spanking as a disciplinary technique, but none show its usefulness. In the past thirty years in pediatric practice, we have observed thousands of families who have tried spanking and found it doesn't work. Our general impression is that parents spank less as their experience increases. Spanking doesn't work for the child, for the parents, or for society. Spanking does not promote good behavior, it creates a distance between parent and child, and it contributes to a violent society. Parents who rely on punishment as their primary mode of discipline don't grow in their knowledge of their child. It keeps them from creating better alternatives, which would help them to know their child and build a better relationship. In the process of raising our own eight children, we have also concluded that spanking doesn't work. We found ourselves spanking less and less as our experience and the number of children increased. In our home, we have programmed ourselves against spanking and are committed to creating an attitude within our children, and an atmosphere within our home, that renders spanking unnecessary. Since spanking is not an option, we have been forced to come up with better alternatives. This has not only made us better parents, but in the long run we believe it has created more sensitive and well-behaved children.

*8 ADMONITIONS TO PARENTS WHO CHOOSE TO SPANK*

By now you should realize that our position on spanking is simple: don't. But we are also experienced enough to realize that some loving, nurturing, committed parents believe in spanking as part of their overall discipline package. As a pediatrician with thirty years in practice, I am also quite aware that regardless of our advice against spanking, some parents are going to spank their children. For these parents, the best we can hope for is to help them spank in a way that is less likely to become abusive. Consider these suggestions.

*1. Examine your overall parenting style.* If you are generally a nurturing parent practicing the attachment style of parenting, an occasional spanking is unlikely to damage your child or relationshipâ€”but it's unlikely to help it either. If, on the other hand, you are practicing a more restrained style of parenting, spanking will be another obstacle that prevents you from knowing your child.

*2. Examine your relationship with your child.* Do you generally feel connected to your child? Do you feel that you have a handle on why your child behaves the way he or she does and can anticipate the undesirable behaviors before they begin? Do you know what triggers undesirable behaviors and what fosters desirable ones? Do you see signs that your child feels close to you: eye contact, approaching you, putting his arms around you, wanting to be picked up, enjoying being with you, and being able to communicate with you? If this is true, then an occasional spanking is unlikely to harm your relationship. If, however, you have a distant relationship and don't feel connected to your child, physical punishment is likely to increase the distance between you.

Here is a story from a mother of two of my patients. She is an intuitive, loving parent with a strong connection to her children, and she has a huge repertoire of alternatives to spanking.

"There have been a few times when we have had to spank our kids, and it was when they were between three and five years old. It was three or four times for our daughter, maybe once or twice for our son. I don't like to see tantruming children flailing out of control. They need something to help them get control back. So on the few occasions that they were literally out of control we've used spanking. I can remember when one of them was throwing a tantrum, my husband said, 'I have to swat your bottom to help you stop.' It shocked him and he was able to regain his control."

Other parents would handle this differently and would not respond this way to tantrums. Yet these parents know their children and know their own tolerances for "out of control" behavior. One comment I do have is that the reason the swat worked is that it had shock value, meaning it was the first (and rare) occurrence. It got the child's attention because these parents saved it for the one situation they personally could not tolerate.

*3. Determine where spanking fits in your overall discipline package.* Do you raise your hand in the swatting position or grab the wooden spoon as a knee-jerk response the moment your child misbehaves? One way to tell if you are a reflex hitter is if your child flinches anytime you move your hand suddenly upward in his vicinity. Reflex spanking is rarely helpful for several reasons: It's done out of anger, you may spank harder than intended, and you don't allow yourself time to try alternatives. If you resolve to put spanking way down on the list of correction techniques, you will have to try alternatives first rather than immediately click into "hit mode."

*4. Don't spank in anger .* If you are an angry person given to impulsive hitting, realize you are at risk for spanking abusively and dangerously. Some children have a way of pushing "hot buttons" in adults, and some adults have very sensitive buttons. Examine your feelings during and after spanking. Do you spank to punish your child, or to vent your anger? Who's the spanking for, you or your child? Says Martha: Martha's Comments: "Previously, when I did spank our children, I never felt right about it. I didn't spank because the behavior was so bad, but because I had been inconvenienced, and I was taking it out on the child. I used to slap our first two children in anger, and as I slapped I could see in my mind's eye how I had been slapped by angry adults as a child. It was those flashbacks that made me realize how wrong I was for me to hit our child."

When you are angry, you are likely to spank too hard because you are out of control. (Seeing you out of control traumatizes them as much as the spanking.) Spanking in anger leaves the wrong impression on children's minds. They may be so bothered by the anger in your eyes and face that they don't realize the reason or the justification for the spanking. As a result, the punishment has no teaching value. A proper disciplinary action should improve the relationship with your child by creating a feeling that the parents are fair and consistent boundary setters; the child can depend on them to be in charge when he himself is out of control. Spanking, especially in anger, disturbs the trust between caregiver and child. In our family, we have found the best way to avoid spanking in anger is to mentally program ourselves against spanking. We have resolved never to spank. This preprogramming against spanking will override the reflex to smack a child, and give us time to think about what type of correction is best in this situation. Programming against spanking is a sort of safety valve that keeps you from possibly hurting your child.

*5. Do not violate your child.* Removing underwear in order to spank bare skin is a humiliating invasion of personal and private space and sexually threatening and confusing to the child. So firmly resist the traditional image of the bare- bottomed child stretched across your lap.

Should you use your open hand, paddle, or a switch to spank? Use of any one of the above will not cause permanent physical harm if you avoid too much force. The one tool we definitely advise against is a wooden spoon because we have seen bodily injury result from this club-like instrument. Any spanking that leaves black and blue marks (bruising) is wrong whether you use an object or your hand. Keep your hand open and flatâ€”a fisted hand will be too forceful and damaging. A child old enough to spank (see number 6) will also understand that your loving hand is holding the spanking tool. The hand-versus-object debate is meaningless to him.

*6. Explain the spank.* Spanking without an explanation contributes little to discipline. In fact, studies have shown that calm spanking preceded by a rational explanation does less harm and more good than spanking without such reasoning. Explaining the punishment can be therapeutic for both the spanker and the spankee. It helps you decide whether or not your action is appropriate. It makes it less likely that the child will repeat the misbehavior, gives your child a chance to make a judgment about the fairness of the action, and preserves the self-image of the child by treating him as a rational person. The child will feel angry and humiliated about the spanking if he feels that there is no reason for it.

Getting the child to understand why he is being spanked helps to clear the air of angry feelings and contributes to his gaining self-control. If during your explanation you either begin to realize that you have the facts wrong or your heart is telling you there is a better way to deal with the situation, by all means switch to another corrective action and make a mental note to give this whole thing more thought.

A child under three will not be able to fully understand your explanation; he'll just know he's being hit and it has something to do with his being bad. He's probably also too young to separate his person from his action, so he'll think he's bad even though you are telling him "that was a bad thing to do."

*7. Ask yourself, "Is spanking working?"* Evaluate your discipline techniques every month or two, especially physical punishment. Which ones are working? Is your child misbehaving less? Is your relationship with your child getting better? Is your child's self-worth increasing? If the answers to all the questions are "yes" then you are on the right track. If any disciplinary action is not working, drop it. If you are spanking harder and more often, this technique is obviously not working and you need to consider alternatives. You need to consider other modes of discipline if you find your child is misbehaving more. Change what you're doing if the distance between you and your child is increasing.

*8. Examine the time you spend with your child.* Is much of your quality time with your child spent punishing? If this is so, you are likely to have an angry child and a weak parent-child relationship. The joys of parenting and the stages of growing up are too precious to waste on such negative interaction. Consider changing your approach; spend a lot of time with your child just having fun. Let your child help you work around the house or run errands. Tell him you enjoy his companionship. As your child realizes how much fun it is to be with you, he will translate this into behaving wellâ€”which can be fun, too.

*CORPORAL REDIRECTION VERSUS CORPORAL PUNISHMENT *

Here is an example of an alternative to spanking that physically corrects misbehavior without inflicting pain. Lauren is our family monkey; she is always climbing on things. One day Martha walked into the kitchen to see then twenty-two-month-old Lauren standing on the countertop sorting through the spice rack. (Rarely had she gotten to this level in her adventures without someone intervening.) In a rapid reflexive move, Martha swung one hand under Lauren's bottom and the other arm around her middle as she swooped her off the countertop with a firmness and swiftness that surprised them both, while saying something like "Not safe! You stay down!" Lauren happened to be bare-bottomed, so the swift, firm hand made a slightly stinging sensation on her bare skin. This registered with Lauren. She looked closely at Martha to detect anger or intent to hurt in her mother's body language. Finding none, she interpreted her removal as protection and correction rather than punishment, and she cut short her howl of protest. Martha's physical action inflicted direction, not pain. The sureness and swiftness of the movement certainly left its mark on Lauren's mind. Lauren learned, once again, that Martha is the parent and she is the child. To Lauren, Martha's bigness is not a threat but a security ("Mom can rescue me because she is big"), even though the rescues are limits to freedom that are often frustrating to Lauren. It is very important for children to get the clear message that their parents are in charge. With young children most of this impression will need to be made physically. Words alone won't work.

*SIGNS YOU NEED PROFESSIONAL HELP ABOUT DISCIPLINE*

Most discipline problems can be handled by just taking the time to assess the strength of your parent-child connection, using commonsense techniques, and trying one approach after another until you find what works. Yet there are times when you need outside help. Consider two different types of counselors. Consult experienced, happy parents whose advice you value. They can offer practical tips to make living with your child easier. You may need to dig more deeply into disciplining yourself in order to discipline your child. You may require the help of a therapist. Here are some red flags that mean you are at risk for disciplining unwisely.


*Yelling .* Do you go into frequent rages that are out of control, calling your child names ("Brat," "Damn kid") and causing your child to recoil and retreat? This means that you are letting your child punch your anger buttons too easily, that you may not have control of your anger buttons, or that there are simply too many anger buttons. 
*Mirroring unhappiness.* Do you walk around all day reflecting to your child that you are unhappy as a person and as a parent? Kids take this personally. If they bring you no joy, they must be no good. Life is a "downer." 
*Parentifying . *Are your children taking care of you instead of vice versa? Are you crying and complaining a lot and showing immature overreactions to accidents or misbehaviors? This scares children. You're supposed to be the parent, the one in control protecting them. 
*Blame shifting . *Do you unload your mistakes on your kids or your spouse? If so, children learn that the way you deal with problems is to avoid taking personal responsibility for them, and that somehow these problems are just too big for you to manage or that you don't know how to ask for help. 
*Modeling perfection . *Are you intolerant of even trivial mistakes made by yourself or your child? The child gets the message that mistakes are horrible to make. This is particularly difficult for the "sponge child," the one who soaks up your attitudes and becomes too hard on himself. 
*Spanking more. *Are slaps and straps showing up in your corrections? Are most of your interactions with your child on a negative note? 
*A fearing family. *Is your child afraid of you? Does she cringe when you raise your voice and keep a "safe" distance from you? Is your child becoming emotionally flat, fearing the consequences of expressing her emotions?
Article #2

*Spanking, Fact or Fiction???*

Definitions:

*Corporal punishment:*

Synonymous with â€œphysical punishment.â€ It means the intentional infliction of pain on the body for purposes of punishment or controlling behavior. It includes slapping, spanking, hitting with objects, pinching, shaking, and forcing to stand for long periods of time.

*Spanking:*

Hitting with the flat of the hand usually on the buttocks for punishment or for stopping a behavior.

In the United States, spanking as punishment has shown a long-term decline. In the l950â€™s, ninety-nine percent of parents supported the use of corporal punishment of children. In recent years that number has fallen. Surveys generally report fifty-sixty percent of parents supporting its use. Although a majority of parents understand that spanking does not work or teach children self-control, surveys usually show a majority of parents find spanking acceptable.

Parents who support spanking often use one of the following arguments:

Spanking is an effective way to manage behavior.

I got hit when I was a kid and I turned out OK.

If we donâ€™t spank children, theyâ€™ll grow up rotten.

The bible says, â€œSpare the rod and spoil the childâ€

*Look at the facts:*

*Spanking argument #1* â€“ â€œSpanking is an effective way to manage behaviorâ€

Hitting a small child will usually stop misbehavior. However, other ways of discipline such as verbal correction, reasoning, and time-out work as well and do not have the potential for harm that hitting does. Hitting children may actually increase misbehavior. One large study showed that the more parents spanked children for antisocial behavior, the more the antisocial behavior increased (Straus, Sugarman, &amp; Giles-Sims, l997). The more children are hit, the more likely they are to hit others including peers and siblings and, as adults, they are more likely to hit their spouses (Straus and Gelles, l990; Wolfe, l987). Hitting children teaches them that it is acceptable to hit others who are smaller and weaker. â€œIâ€™m going to hit you because you hit your sisterâ€ is a hypocrisy not lost on children.

*Spanking argument #2* â€“ â€œI got hit when I was a kid and I turned out OKâ€

Being spanked is an emotional event. Adults often remember with crystal clarity times they were paddled or spanked as children. Many adults look back on corporal punishment in childhood with great anger and sadness. Sometimes people say, â€œI was spanked as a child, and I deserved itâ€. It is hard for us to believe that people who loved us would intentionally hurt us. We feel the need to excuse that hurt. Studies show that even a few instances of being hit as children are associated with more depressive symptoms as adults (Strauss, l994, Strassberg, Dodge, Pettit &amp; Bates, l994). While most of us who were spanked â€œturned out OKâ€, it is likely that not being spanked would have helped us turn out to be healthier.

*Spanking Argument #3* â€“ â€œIf we donâ€™t spank children, theyâ€™ll grow up rottenâ€

Children in eleven countries are growing up without being hit in homes, in daycare or in schools. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Austria, Finland and other countries that have banned corporal punishment of children have remarkably low rates of interpersonal violence compared to the United States. Professor Adrienne Haeuser who studied these educational laws in Europe in l981 and l991 said â€œChildren are receiving more discipline since the law in Sweden passed. Parents think twice and tend to rely more on verbal conflict resolution to manage their childrenâ€. Discipline is important. Discipline means â€œto teachâ€. We need more discipline of children such as explaining and reasoning, establishing rules and consequences, praising good behavior in children and being good models for or children. Such methods develop a childâ€™s conscience and self-control. Children who experience teaching discipline are less likely to misbehave and more likely to become self-disciplined adults.

*Spanking Argument #4* â€“ â€œThe bible says â€˜Spare the rod and spoil the childâ€™ and I must obey Godâ€

Spanking is deeply rooted in the history and culture of the United States. The bible is often used to support, even require, that parents use corporal punishment on children. Many clergy today are speaking out against that interpretation of the bible. The Reverend Dr. Thomas E. Sagendorf of Bexley United Methodist Church in Columbus, OH says the following â€œI can find no sanction in the teaching of Jesus or the witness of the New Testament to encourage the practice of corporal punishment at home, school or anywhere else. A number of popular voices take a different view, often quoting Old Testament scriptures to prove their point. Those who subscribe to this argument misunderstand and misuse scripture. A similar method of selective reading could just as well be used to justify slavery, suppression of women, polygamy, incest and infanticideâ€.

Conclusion:

Look at the facts. Accumulated research supports the ineffectiveness and harm of corporal punishment. Children who are spanked most are more likely to be aggressive and hit others. Children hit for antisocial behaviors are more likely to increase those misbehaviors. Hitting children teaches acceptance of violence. While most of us who were spanked as children grow up to be healthy adults, spanking caused anxiety, contributed to feelings of helplessness and humiliation, and often provoked anger and a desire for revenge, feelings which have usually been repressed in adulthood but may lead to depression, adult violence, and hitting our own children. Effective discipline exists. It does not involve hitting and humiliating children.

Article #3

Ten MORE Reasons for NOT Hitting Children


Hitting children sometimes leads to injuries like bruises, welts, subdural hematomas, nerve damage and broken bones.

Hitting destroys self-esteem and trust. Cooperative behavior is much more likely to occur when there is a strong loving bond between parent and child.

Hitting children transmits a pro-violence attitude. Children who are frequently hit learn to be hitters themselves.

Hitting children teaches them that "might makes right."

Hitting a child for misbehavior means that the caretaker loses an important opportunity for teaching a more appropriate behavior. Fear is not an effective way of teaching appropriate behavior.

Children who are hit are likely to perform the desired behavior only when the hitter is nearby.

Children who are frequently hit often grow up with childhood memories that are full of anger and resentment. Biblical scriptures used to support corporal punishment of children could be used to justify slavery, suppression of women, incest and infanticide. Using the Bible to support corporal punishment of children is a selective use of scriptures to condone secular thinking.

Children are often hit for behavior which is not "bad" behavior but rather behavior which is related to their need to explore the world, and for needs related to nutrition, exercise, attention and sleep.

Children learn best through teaching, discussion and observing adults who model responsible, caring, and self-disciplined behavior.

Remember, some of these are my opinions, and **IF** if you spank, please don't hold it against me!


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## Andi (Jun 7, 2005)

ok obviously I have no kids but IÂ´m completely with ya on that topic. violence is always wrong! and spanking is violence too in my eyes!

I donÂ´t remember being spanked a lot in my childhood. my mum never did. my dad only did when I did something really bad (which I still think wasnÂ´t justified) and he would always say "if you do this and that I will slap you so hard that your head will shake for a week". this is actually a movie quote and I think he though it was kinda "funny" so he always said that. but he never seriously hurt me.

well ONE time he must have been in a hell of a mood. me and my brother were in a little fight at the lunch table (that was when I was already like 15) and he told us to stop but we didnt. thatÂ´s when he threw a fork at my head!!! I thought this was the most brutal thing he ever did-and he never apologized, neither did my mum.

thatÂ´s one thing I donÂ´t like about some parents (including mine), they think all their actions are smart and 100% justified and they sometimes never question their actions. they think just cause theyÂ´re my parents theyÂ´re doing everything right and that I have to live with their decisions with out having the possibility to throw in my opinion


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## NYAngel98 (Jun 7, 2005)

I don't think you should beat the kid... but I absolutely CANNOT STAND when I'm out somewhere - and some kid is running around causing havoc and the parents are 5 feet away and apparently just ignore him. They do a simple... "So-n-So... stop that". and then when the kid continues to do what they're doing... "so-n-so stop that" and this continues for what seems like forever - and apparently they just don't care. I don't know how some of these new methods of parenting work - and although I don't have kids... I see parents out there that have no problem letting their kids act like animals &amp; disturb everyone around them while they just ignore it &amp; pretend like they don't know what's going on. This happened while we were sitting outside a Chili's restaurant last weekend... a group of like 5 people (2 in their 20's I would say, a few areound 9-10, and a kid who must've been about 4) Well the 4 year old proceeded to run through &amp; stomp on the bushes, take the beeper (that buzzes when your table is ready) and smash it the ground a million times, throw rocks at the building and cars parked right in front, and then scream at the top of his lungs... and I guess the 20 something year olds were his parents b/c all they said was "Michael. Stop that. Daddy says stop" and then returned to ignoring the kid while he continued to throw rocks. Drives me crazy!



Sorry... had to vent! lol


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## Jen (Jun 7, 2005)

OMG, Janelle, I agree with ya. I did spank my kids occasionally. I believe it worked for me. I agree on quite a few of your points as well, Tony.

Originally Posted by *NYAngel98* I don't think you should beat the kid... but I absolutely CANNOT STAND when I'm out somewhere - and some kid is running around causing havoc and the parents are 5 feet away and apparently just ignore him. They do a simple... "So-n-So... stop that". and then when the kid continues to do what they're doing... "so-n-so stop that" and this continues for what seems like forever - and apparently they just don't care. I don't know how some of these new methods of parenting work - and although I don't have kids... I see parents out there that have no problem letting their kids act like animals &amp; disturb everyone around them while they just ignore it &amp; pretend like they don't know what's going on. This happened while we were sitting outside a Chili's restaurant last weekend... a group of like 5 people (2 in their 20's I would say, a few areound 9-10, and a kid who must've been about 4) Well the 4 year old proceeded to run through &amp; stomp on the bushes, take the beeper (that buzzes when your table is ready) and smash it the ground a million times, throw rocks at the building and cars parked right in front, and then scream at the top of his lungs... and I guess the 20 something year olds were his parents b/c all they said was "Michael. Stop that. Daddy says stop" and then returned to ignoring the kid while he continued to throw rocks. Drives me crazy!



Sorry... had to vent! lol


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## girl_geek (Jun 7, 2005)

My parents spanked us only on very rare occasions (I only remember it once or twice) and hubby was also spanked a few times, and we all turned out ok



However I do realize there is a lot of evidence to show otherwise, which makes me very hesitant to spank our own future children because I can certainly see the points made in your article. Just because my brother and I turned out ok doesn't mean my kids will!



Plus I would be worried that if we did spank the kids, they would mention it at school and Social Services would be at our doorstep! So we will definitely be finding non-voilent ways to discipline the kids!





As for Janelle's story, I do think there are ways to discipline your kids in public! If you punish your kids at home by some means that they hate (e.g. time-out), then shouldn't you be able to tell the kid that if they don't stop they'll have to go to time-out when they get home or something? I don't know, we don't have kids yet so I don't know if those tactics work, but I would think you would be able to do something other than just say "stop it!" Definitely not ignore the kid!


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## Geek (Jun 7, 2005)

YES, good point girl geek! Thanks for replying. Did you see all the biblical references? Since you are pretty religeous, what do you think about them?


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## nydoll23 (Jun 7, 2005)

Sorry i have to butt in here.I dont beleive in spanking at all.You can raise good decent human beings without putting your hand on them. What do you teach a child by hitting them,violence=respect.This is a horrible cycle that is barbaric and unnessasary.For those of you that have a prob with kids that act up a bit(not you Janelle,that kid was a monster,lol)You have to remember that children are children and sometimes they are going to act up.I wouldnt bring my children to a fancy resturant if i wasnt sure they were going to behave,but dont complain if i take them to applebee's and they cry abit .If you dont want to be bother with children then go to a non family resturant. I hate when people look at kids like they are monsters ,what do they think they were once upon a time?

For the parents who spank,there job is a lot easier than parents that dont spank.Its takes alot of love and patience not to spank and to communicate with your children. anyways thats my opionion,hopefully you guys dont hang me for it


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## girl_geek (Jun 7, 2005)

Originally Posted by *Tony(admin)* YES, good point girl geek! Thanks for replying. Did you see all the biblical references? Since you are pretty religeous, what do you think about them?



I haven't studied any Biblical teachings on spankings before, but I do think that article makes some good points. Sometimes it is hard for us to interpret scriptures without some historical background (like how many people would think "rod" meant a shepard's staff?) and they made some very good points. I really can't imagine Jesus being in favor of spanking anyway


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## Geek (Jun 7, 2005)

Nothing personal, just wonderin! Thanks and I don't think Jesus would either....









Originally Posted by *girl_geek* 

I haven't studied any Biblical teachings on spankings before, but I do think that article makes some good points. Sometimes it is hard for us to interpret scriptures without some historical background (like how many people would think "rod" meant a shepard's staff?) and they made some very good points. I really can't imagine Jesus being in favor of spanking anyway


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## Jennifer (Jun 7, 2005)

i don't think whether you spank your child or not means anything.

i think sofi will back me up when i say ALBANIANS GO CRAZY WITH THE SPANKING andddddd back in the motherland, they whip kids with really thin sticks. my mom's brother was her teacher in school when she was little and told me the other day of a story when her brother whipped this little boy's hands because he was late for school and she said it was the funniest thing ever - even the little boy was laughing after. to us, albanians, it's SO normal. my relatives spank and/or hit (not abuse) their kids all the time when they're not listening and me and my siblings were DISCIPLINED (not abused) and we're all fine.

i'm not saying just because i'm used to seeing all of this makes it right, but i don't think it's considered abuse and it's no surprise to me at all or my culture.

sofi, where are you?


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## Geek (Jun 7, 2005)

Originally Posted by *Jennifer* 

i don't think whether you spank your child or not means anything.
i think sofi will back me up when i say ALBANIANS GO CRAZY WITH THE SPANKING andddddd back in the motherland, they whip kids with really thin sticks. my mom's brother was her teacher in school when she was little and told me the other day of a story when her brother whipped this little boy's hands because he was late for school and she said it was the funniest thing ever - even the little boy was laughing after. to us, albanians, it's SO normal. my relatives spank and/or hit (not abuse) their kids all the time when they're not listening and me and my siblings were DISCIPLINED (not abused) and we're all fine.

i'm not saying just because i'm used to seeing all of this makes it right, but i don't think it's considered abuse and it's no surprise to me at all or my culture.

sofi, where are you?








Thin sticks? OMG, that seems sooo "old school". Hitting with object? wow....Slaves were whipped, and we don't do that anymore. Did you read those articles? OMG, they make some serious proof that spanking does no one good. Still think it's a level of intellect that one has to know that using violence to treat violence just doesn't work...duh! lol


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## nydoll23 (Jun 7, 2005)

Good gosh,using sticks,what ,the children were cattle?I think that is completly unnessary.Good point Tony about slaves being abused and we sure as hell dont do that.If It is agasinst the law to hit another adult why is it ok to hit a helpless child?


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## Liz (Jun 7, 2005)

hell yeah i'm gonna spank my kids! "Go clean your damn room!" *witch slap*

lol. i'm JUST JOKING!!

i TOTALLY relate to Janelle's story about when little kids run around and scream and are little devils! I hate that. I just want to catch the kid's eye and give them a mean like a monster. lol.

but i have problems with older kids, not toddlers. sometimes i think spanking is good when i see these teenage kids being bad. makes me want to whoop them right there!

i watch dr. phil every so often. and he has some good tips about parenting out of the house. if you're out somewhere and the kid is acting up, you have to put them in a time out then and there. if you say "you're going to be on a time out when you get home" they won't really understand what they're being punished for.

like if you're out at a restaurant and have like 2 kids or something and one is acting up, one of the parents has to go and sit with him in the car for a time out. they'll see that their bro/sis is inside and eating because they're being good.

he said that you have to make sacrifices like that if you have kids.


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## Jennifer (Jun 7, 2005)

Originally Posted by *Tony(admin)* Thin sticks? OMG, that seems sooo "old school". Hitting with object? wow....Slaves were whipped, and we don't do that anymore. Did you read those articles? OMG, they make some serious proof that spanking does no one good. Still think it's a level of intellect that one has to know that using violence to treat violence just doesn't work...duh! lol i read the article and i see how they said it does no one good, but why have my relatives all, for the most part, turned out fine? some didn't, but that's how it ALWAYS works.
it definitely is old school, but it happens. it doesn't happen here in the US, though, but over there, it does.


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## FeistyFemme (Jun 7, 2005)

Obviously spanking is very controversial.

I don't see it as violence at all - I was spanked as a child, and I don't resent my mother (who was the only one who spanked me). Trust me, if I got a spanking, I'm sure I deserved it. She didn't spank me for just any little thing. I never was left with bruises, broken bones, welts, or anything else.

Believe me, I have turned out just fine. I don't advocate abuse by any means, but to me, spanking is not abuse.


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## Jennifer (Jun 7, 2005)

Originally Posted by *FeistyFemme* Obviously spanking is very controversial.
I don't see it as violence at all - I was spanked as a child, and I don't resent my mother (who was the only one who spanked me). Trust me, if I got a spanking, I'm sure I deserved it. She didn't spank me for just any little thing. I never was left with bruises, broken bones, welts, or anything else.

Believe me, I have turned out just fine. I don't advocate abuse by any means, but to me, spanking is not abuse.

amen, sista.


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## Geek (Jun 7, 2005)

Originally Posted by *Jennifer* 

amen, sista. 


Just remember, spanking is teaching through PAIN. There are much better, more effective ways of teaching...
Just cuz your parents did it does not make it right....nor more effective...

Heck my dad smoked 2 packs a day and died at 52. I don't smoke..


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## nydoll23 (Jun 7, 2005)

Originally Posted by *Tony(admin)* Just remember, spanking is teaching through PAIN. There are much better, more effective ways of teaching...
Just cuz your parents did it does not make it right....nor more effective...

Heck my dad smoked 2 packs a day and died at 52. I don't smoke..

Amen to that!!!!Pain does not equal communcation!


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## Jennifer (Jun 7, 2005)

Originally Posted by *Tony(admin)* Just remember, spanking is teaching through PAIN. There are much better, more effective ways of teaching...
Just cuz your parents did it does not make it right....nor more effective...

Heck my dad smoked 2 packs a day and died at 52. I don't smoke..

i don't think it's right because my parents did it. i think it's no big deal and that it's not abuse because that's what i think.


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## Nicolet (Jun 8, 2005)

I have 2 small children (ages 2 and 6), and we do not promote spanking. It is more of a emotional and mental challenge on the parents, because you have to be consistent. It's so easy to just mindlessly swat someone on the behind. We take the time and effort to implement positive discipline techniques. It doesn't come naturally..we've read books, taken classes, etc. Before I had my own kids, I didnt' fully understand how much work being a parent involves. Nonetheless, I also didn't realize how amazing and fulfilling it would be, either.

I was only spanked a few times as a child by my father. My childhood was like a fairytale, a storybook..although I still remember being hit vividly. None of my friends spank their children either, if they did I would probably feel uncomfortable if they did it in front of me and my children.

As for parents who conveniently don't see their children misbehaving, that really, really irks me. There have been so many times when I'm at a park, party, etc. and I feel like I'm the only one watching the kids. I keep looking back at these moms/dads who are just chit-chatting away. A few times I've actually asked them to keep an eye on their own children. Ummm...hello?


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## Never2muchMU (Jun 8, 2005)

Well said. I totally agree.

Originally Posted by *FeistyFemme* Obviously spanking is very controversial.
I don't see it as violence at all - I was spanked as a child, and I don't resent my mother (who was the only one who spanked me). Trust me, if I got a spanking, I'm sure I deserved it. She didn't spank me for just any little thing. I never was left with bruises, broken bones, welts, or anything else.

Believe me, I have turned out just fine. I don't advocate abuse by any means, but to me, spanking is not abuse.


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## NYAngel98 (Jun 8, 2005)

I think a tap on the wrist &amp; full-on abuse are two totally different issues. I don't understand how some of these new parenting things work, but I don't see how a 3 year old is going to understand "logical behavioral problem solving" - as opposed to a stern 'NO' and a tap on the back of the arm.


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## girl_geek (Jun 8, 2005)

Originally Posted by *Liz* i watch dr. phil every so often. and he has some good tips about parenting out of the house. if you're out somewhere and the kid is acting up, you have to put them in a time out then and there. if you say "you're going to be on a time out when you get home" they won't really understand what they're being punished for. 
like if you're out at a restaurant and have like 2 kids or something and one is acting up, one of the parents has to go and sit with him in the car for a time out. they'll see that their bro/sis is inside and eating because they're being good.

he said that you have to make sacrifices like that if you have kids.

Good point ... I doubt little kids would respond well to the threat of future punishment, but I wouldn't want to spank them in front of everyone either!


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## Sofia (Jun 13, 2005)

Originally Posted by *Jennifer* i don't think whether you spank your child or not means anything.
i think sofi will back me up when i say ALBANIANS GO CRAZY WITH THE SPANKING andddddd back in the motherland, they whip kids with really thin sticks. my mom's brother was her teacher in school when she was little and told me the other day of a story when her brother whipped this little boy's hands because he was late for school and she said it was the funniest thing ever - even the little boy was laughing after. to us, albanians, it's SO normal. my relatives spank and/or hit (not abuse) their kids all the time when they're not listening and me and my siblings were DISCIPLINED (not abused) and we're all fine.

i'm not saying just because i'm used to seeing all of this makes it right, but i don't think it's considered abuse and it's no surprise to me at all or my culture.

sofi, where are you?





Jen, I'm sorry, I just saw this.




With regards to Albanians, I don't know if they spank children because that's how they were brought up and don't know another way to discipline them or if they think it's easier to spank and instill fear in their children. Or maybe both. I don't know. I'm an only child so I grew up pretty much keeping to myself, kind of an introvert, so I didn't get into much trouble and my parents were hardly ever around. I was kind of a latchkey child. I never really had to be disciplined much. Usually my mom would just tell me I wouldn't be allowed to go over my cousin's house or some party or something. I do think that twig thing is crazy though.


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## envymi (Jun 13, 2005)

Ummm, ok I'm a spanker. But here's my thing...my son is old enough now where he knows when he's doing something he's not supposed to. I never laid a hand on him while he was a baby. I'm the type of parent that talks to him and explains everything. When he does something wrong I'll have a stern word with him, when he does it several times or just totally disregards my words then I take him aside and give him one good spank. I never spank him in front of anyone-not even my BF. My son's a good boy and he hardly needs any discipline, but he sometimes picks up some bad habits from the boys at daycare and the few times he's gotten spanked he has definitely learned from it. I've never had to talk to him again about anything he's been spanked for-it's engraved in his head. Even though I do spank, he hasn't become fearful of me at all. He's just completely respectful towards me. We're a bit old fashioned in my house, we've even gotten him calling everyone sir and ma'am. And though it might not work for some, it certainly works for me.


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## Tussan (Jun 13, 2005)

In Sweden itÂ´s illegal to hit your child (or anyone else for that matter) and has been so at least since about 70Â´s. If you do, youÂ´ll either loose your children and in more serious cases go to jail (good to remember if you would come here for a visit, since it applies to visitors as well). And for what I understand it wasnÂ´t a big problem enforcing the law, since it had become more like a rule not to hit children some time before the law.

So in my mind spanking a child really isnÂ´t an option, I would never get the idea that it would be a good thing or even an OK thing to do.

Here, we do not hit children (of course there will always be "rotten eggs" who will do so, but they are not looked kindly upon)!

For me I always get a little shocked when watching DrÂ´Phil and other similar American shows, when this topic is up and people tries to justify spanking their kids, since I would never get the idea that it would be a good thing.

But I guess we live in really diffrent cultures (but Sweden is becoming more like America everyday - unfortunately for Sweden this is not a good thing, the American way of life doesnÂ´t really suite our society and the people living here, we are just far to diffrent, but this is another story...). DonÂ´t be angry with me, but youÂ´ll never be able to convince me spanking is even OK, sorry!?

//Jenny

PS I heard something about that spanking your child doesnÂ´t teach them not to do the thing again, but only not to be caught doing that thing again.

IÂ´m sorry if my grammar is worse than usual, but I always get a little upset by the subject (maybe I shouldÂ´t have written a reply at all...)


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## Geek (Jun 13, 2005)

Oh Jenny, you have made some very valid points there. I find that interesting in Sweden that it is illegal. I'll have to ask Reija about Finland if it is illegal, as I think it is. Isn't it funny that an adult can hit a child, but it's illegal to hit another adult? Just doesn't make sense to me. This is just one more American "double standard" that I am sure you know about. Of course there is the "don't look at boobs on the TV as the FCC fuzzes them out, but America has the highest teen pregnancy on the planet" double standard also that it chit chatted about throughout Europe. Chalk one more up for us too here in America as a lot still spank their children. Many are backwoodsy and old fashioned. My favorite is using violence with a child then hugging after. WTF is this? OMG, does one wanna confuse them?

Hitting a child is most often of "parental anger" rather than something else. How can hitting NOT promote anger in a child. It's obvious that it promotes anger in children. When another adult uses an OBJECT to spank like a belt, stick, paddle or such, I find this ridiculous and so old fashioned that I crack up. Come on people, we are smarter than this!!!!

*FACTS: Hitting destroys self-esteem and trust. **Children who are hit are likely to perform the desired behavior only when the hitter is nearby. **Hitting children transmits a pro-violence attitude, this is proven.*

Thanks for this.





Originally Posted by *Tussan* 

In Sweden itÂ´s illegal to hit your child (or anyone else for that matter) and has been so at least since about 70Â´s. If you do, youÂ´ll either loose your children and in more serious cases go to jail (good to remember if you would come here for a visit, since it applies to visitors as well). And for what I understand it wasnÂ´t a big problem enforcing the law, since it had become more like a rule not to hit children some time before the law.
So in my mind spanking a child really isnÂ´t an option, I would never get the idea that it would be a good thing or even an OK thing to do.

Here, we do not hit children (of course there will always be "rotten eggs" who will do so, but they are not looked kindly upon)!

For me I always get a little shocked when watching DrÂ´Phil and other similar American shows, when this topic is up and people tries to justify spanking their kids, since I would never get the idea that it would be a good thing.

But I guess we live in really diffrent cultures (but Sweden is becoming more like America everyday - unfortunately for Sweden this is not a good thing, the American way of life doesnÂ´t really suite our society and the people living here, we are just far to diffrent, but this is another story...). DonÂ´t be angry with me, but youÂ´ll never be able to convince me spanking is even OK, sorry!?

//Jenny

PS I heard something about that spanking your child doesnÂ´t teach them not to do the thing again, but only not to be caught doing that thing again.

IÂ´m sorry if my grammar is worse than usual, but I always get a little upset by the subject (maybe I shouldÂ´t have written a reply at all...)


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## nydoll23 (Jun 13, 2005)

Originally Posted by *Tussan* In Sweden itÂ´s illegal to hit your child (or anyone else for that matter) and has been so at least since about 70Â´s. If you do, youÂ´ll either loose your children and in more serious cases go to jail (good to remember if you would come here for a visit, since it applies to visitors as well). And for what I understand it wasnÂ´t a big problem enforcing the law, since it had become more like a rule not to hit children some time before the law.
So in my mind spanking a child really isnÂ´t an option, I would never get the idea that it would be a good thing or even an OK thing to do.

Here, we do not hit children (of course there will always be "rotten eggs" who will do so, but they are not looked kindly upon)!

For me I always get a little shocked when watching DrÂ´Phil and other similar American shows, when this topic is up and people tries to justify spanking their kids, since I would never get the idea that it would be a good thing.

But I guess we live in really diffrent cultures (but Sweden is becoming more like America everyday - unfortunately for Sweden this is not a good thing, the American way of life doesnÂ´t really suite our society and the people living here, we are just far to diffrent, but this is another story...). DonÂ´t be angry with me, but youÂ´ll never be able to convince me spanking is even OK, sorry!?

//Jenny

PS I heard something about that spanking your child doesnÂ´t teach them not to do the thing again, but only not to be caught doing that thing again.

IÂ´m sorry if my grammar is worse than usual, but I always get a little upset by the subject (maybe I shouldÂ´t have written a reply at all...)


Here here for sweden,sounds like my type of place


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## Geek (Jun 13, 2005)

OH that is simple......the answer is ... Why not? I am just having an opinion also! And, because I beleive children deserve it?





Originally Posted by *Trisha* 

Tony if you believe everyone has a right to their own opinion why do you keep giving counterpounts when someone disagrees with what you say? Just wondering?


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## smallpuppy (Jun 13, 2005)

*Im totally against it!!!*



You won't believe this but I am 21 years old and I still get ocasionally spanked by my mom when she loses control. I am originally from venezuela(but have been in the states for 8 years) and it is ok for you to spank your kids there..it's not like in the states where you can call the police..etc..I came out ok..I am very studious..respect people however I have a very low self esteem eventhough people always tell me I'm beautiful..etc..and I still have the emotional scars when my mom spanked me..if you are a parent PLEASE don't do it!! YOu are showing your kid to be violent and to lose control..after all you want to teach them self control!!! *It also teaches your kids to be totally terrified of you and when they grow up they will never tell you what they are doing!! ANd if they do they will lie to you to try to avoid being spanked!! I know this because I do it still!!! If my mother wasn't the way she is I would tell her everything without the fear of being spanked!! Please you want a relationship with your kid!!!*


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## Geek (Jun 13, 2005)

WHAT? omg, this is criminal activity.





Originally Posted by *smallpuppy* 

I am 21 years old and I still get ocasionally spanked by my mom when she loses control.


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## nydoll23 (Jun 13, 2005)

Originally Posted by *smallpuppy* *Im totally against it!!!*



You won't believe this but I am 21 years old and I still get ocasionally spanked by my mom when she loses control. I am originally from venezuela(but have been in the states for 8 years) and it is ok for you to spank your kids there..it's not like in the states where you can call the police..etc..I came out ok..I am very studious..respect people however I have a very low self esteem eventhough people always tell me I'm beautiful..etc..and I still have the emotional scars when my mom spanked me..if you are a parent PLEASE don't do it!! YOu are showing your kid to be violent and to lose control..after all you want to teach them self control!!! *It also teaches your kids to be totally terrified of you and when they grow up they will never tell you what they are doing!! ANd if they do they will lie to you to try to avoid being spanked!! I know this because I do it still!!! If my mother wasn't the way she is I would tell her everything without the fear of being spanked!! Please you want a relationship with your kid!!!* Im very sorry that you had to grow up to fear you parents.I know how you feel my parents were very abusive with me and it didnt do anything but give me really bad self esteem.This is why i never want to do this to my children because they deserve to feel like someone not an empty shell,and thats what children become when they are hit,they are empty shells,and they lose that sparkle that all children have.


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## Jennifer (Jun 13, 2005)

Originally Posted by *Tussan* In Sweden itÂ´s illegal to hit your child (or anyone else for that matter) and has been so at least since about 70Â´s. If you do, youÂ´ll either loose your children and in more serious cases go to jail (good to remember if you would come here for a visit, since it applies to visitors as well). And for what I understand it wasnÂ´t a big problem enforcing the law, since it had become more like a rule not to hit children some time before the law.
So in my mind spanking a child really isnÂ´t an option, I would never get the idea that it would be a good thing or even an OK thing to do.

Here, we do not hit children (of course there will always be "rotten eggs" who will do so, but they are not looked kindly upon)!

For me I always get a little shocked when watching DrÂ´Phil and other similar American shows, when this topic is up and people tries to justify spanking their kids, since I would never get the idea that it would be a good thing.

But I guess we live in really diffrent cultures (but Sweden is becoming more like America everyday - unfortunately for Sweden this is not a good thing, the American way of life doesnÂ´t really suite our society and the people living here, we are just far to diffrent, but this is another story...). DonÂ´t be angry with me, but youÂ´ll never be able to convince me spanking is even OK, sorry!?

//Jenny

PS I heard something about that spanking your child doesnÂ´t teach them not to do the thing again, but only not to be caught doing that thing again.

IÂ´m sorry if my grammar is worse than usual, but I always get a little upset by the subject (maybe I shouldÂ´t have written a reply at all...)

i have relatives in sweden and they've told me it illegal there, too, and have told me about cases where there have been taps and the people got arrested!

Originally Posted by *Trisha* I agree Erica, i only ever got smacked on the back of the legs a couple of times (one time i was trying to strangle my sister!), i remember it didnt hurt, anyway Tony if you believe everyone has a right to their own opinion why do you keep giving counterpounts when someone disagrees with what you say? Just wondering?
However, I dont think i will spank if i have any kids, i love how Supernanny (do you get that in the USA?) disciplines and will probably use those techniques, they work really well with all the kids shes helped.

sorry, off topic, but i didn't know you had a sister! for some reason, i thought of you as an only child!
i LOVE supernanny. we get that here. i actually use some of her techniques when i babysit and it works!


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## NYAngel98 (Jun 13, 2005)

LOL - Thats funny, I thought she was an only child too!!! Weird how we just assumed that??? Odd... show us a pic of your sister Trisha!!!!


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## Pauline (Jun 13, 2005)

Originally Posted by *Tony(admin)* Oh Jenny, you have made some very valid points there. I find that interesting in Sweden that it is illegal. I'll have to ask Reija about Finland if it is illegal, as I think it is. Isn't it funny that an adult can hit a child, but it's illegal to hit another adult? Just doesn't make sense to me. This is just one more American "double standard" that I am sure you know about. Of course there is the "don't look at boobs on the TV as the FCC fuzzes them out, but America has the highest teen pregnancy on the planet" double standard also that it chit chatted about throughout Europe. Chalk one more up for us too here in America as a lot still spank their children. Many are backwoodsy and old fashioned. My favorite is using violence with a child then hugging after. WTF is this? OMG, does one wanna confuse them?
Hitting a child is most often of "parental anger" rather than something else. How can hitting NOT promote anger in a child. It's obvious that it promotes anger in children. When another adult uses an OBJECT to spank like a belt, stick, paddle or such, I find this ridiculous and so old fashioned that I crack up. Come on people, we are smarter than this!!!!

*FACTS: Hitting destroys self-esteem and trust. **Children who are hit are likely to perform the desired behavior only when the hitter is nearby. **Hitting children transmits a pro-violence attitude, this is proven.*

*Thanks for this.*

yes i totally agree hitting is bad for any person, especially helpless children.

Violence often breeds violence and children grow into adults and are left to face and cope with the aftermath! Often leading to years of tramuma!!!!


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## Jennifer (Jun 13, 2005)

Spanking Is Not Violence!!!!!!!!!!


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## NYAngel98 (Jun 13, 2005)

Originally Posted by *Jennifer* Spanking Is Not Violence!!!!!!!!!! I agree... unless you are PURPOSELY trying to abuse a kid... I would think of it more as discipline, not violence.


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## girl_geek (Jun 13, 2005)

Originally Posted by *Tussan* PS I heard something about that spanking your child doesnÂ´t teach them not to do the thing again, but only not to be caught doing that thing again. Just a random thought ... doesn't ANY punishment (time-out, grounding, etc) do the same thing? If a child doesn't like the consequences of an action but still wants to do it, then they still may do it again and try not to get caught. Why would only spanking have this effect?
What's important is that regardless of how you punish your children, you somehow teach them moral values so that they won't want to do wrong things regardless of whether they think they'll get caught! (Of course that's probably easier said than done



)

Likewise, no matter how you punish your child, if you do it often and without showing enough love, the child may still grow up in fear of you even if you never lay a hand on them. Is yelling at a child and sending them to their room out of anger much different than hitting them out of anger? If you do it all the time wouldn't the child still grow up in fear of you?

Just some random thoughts!


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## Pauline (Jun 13, 2005)

Originally Posted by *Jennifer* Spanking Is Not Violence!!!!!!!!!! IF SPANKING ISN'T VIOLENCE THEN WHAT IS IT?
in my eyes SPANKING IS A FORM OF VIOLENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:icon_ evil


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## Pauline (Jun 13, 2005)

Originally Posted by *Tony(admin)* Just remember, spanking is teaching through PAIN. There are much better, more effective ways of teaching...
Just cuz your parents did it does not make it right....nor more effective...

Heck my dad smoked 2 packs a day and died at 52. I don't smoke..

WELL SAID TONY!!! spanking is a loss of control! Ever heard of the phrase that a man who hits a woman once will do it again? Well when parent's spank their kids, will they do it harder and with more force if the child misbehaves again?There is more to teaching children how to behave than to lose control and spank/slap/hit whatever...whats the difference?

*SPANKING IS A FORM OF VIOLENCE AND ASSAULT!*


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## Geek (Jun 13, 2005)

Originally Posted by *Pauline* 

WELL SAID TONY!!! spanking is a loss of control! Ever heard of the phrase that a man who hits a woman once will do it again? Well when parent's spank their kids, will they do it harder and with more force if the child misbehaves again?There is more to teaching children how to behave than to lose control and spank/slap/hit whatever...whats the difference?

*SPANKING IS A FORM OF VIOLENCE AND ASSAULT!*




I just find it funny that it's illegal to hit another adult (WHO CAN HIT BACK), but it's not llegal to hit a helpless child (WHO CANNOT HIT BACK). Th police will arrest you if you BEAT your wife, but not your children. 
How ironic is that?


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## Pauline (Jun 13, 2005)

Originally Posted by *Trisha* I agree Erica, i only ever got smacked on the back of the legs a couple of times (one time i was trying to strangle my sister!), i remember it didnt hurt, anyway Tony if you believe everyone has a right to their own opinion why do you keep giving counterpounts when someone disagrees with what you say? Just wondering?
However, I dont think i will spank if i have any kids, i love how Supernanny (do you get that in the USA?) disciplines and will probably use those techniques, they work really well with all the kids shes helped.

Hi Trish,I too watch supernanny! and even in the Big Borther house they have a Naughty Step!


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## Pauline (Jun 13, 2005)

Originally Posted by *Trisha* I love Supernanny! Some of the kids on there are terrors!! I cannot believe they are using such foul language at such a young age!

Ya know, this year on BB i dont like anyone apart from Derek, hes quite funny! x

Well Trish, you were right on the nail with Leslie! I am not that keen on most of the BB housemates but Roberto does make me weak at the knee's. Derek is a strong character too.Back to the subject though, i have noticed that nobody has answered my question regarding spanking. If it's not a form of violence then what exaclty is it? I would love to hear a sensible answer. Oh and Tony, thanks for being a voice for the children who can't answer or fight back.


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## Geek (Jun 13, 2005)

Originally Posted by *Pauline* 

Well Trish, you were right on the nail with Leslie! I am not that keen on most of the BB housemates but Roberto does make me weak at the knee's. Derek is a strong character too.Back to the subject though, i have noticed that nobody has answered my question regarding spanking. If it's not a form of violence then what exaclty is it? I would love to hear a sensible answer. Oh and Tony, thanks for being a voice for the children who can't answer or fight back.




Everyone should remember that we all should hold NO GRUDGES here as this is just thread with a bunch of opinions.


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## Liz (Jun 13, 2005)

see that's the thing. some kids are just stubborn or don't listen to "stop" or don't care about time outs.


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## Pauline (Jun 13, 2005)

Originally Posted by *Liz* see that's the thing. some kids are just stubborn or don't listen to "stop" or don't care about time outs. So violence is the answer then? Surely adults are intelligent enough to be able to find a way that does work (withholding pocket money usually works) or other NON VIOLENT ways.


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## Geek2 (Jun 13, 2005)

Hurray for Sweden! and Finland too for that matter because yes spanking a child is illegal in Finland as well. Sweden and Finland are similar in a lot of matters since they are neighbours. Thanks for pointing it out Tussan! I agree with you about the shows when I watch them here in the US. Some of them are very shocking! Since I grew up in Finland and visited Sweden millions of times I have the scandinavian way of looking at child rearing. I promote breastfeeding and I'm against spanking. I've seen kids who are spanked and they don't behave any better then kids that aren't. Actually based on my observasions they many times behave worse. When a child is spanked he or she is made to behave a certain way out of fear and the child is not learning to think on their own what is proper behaviour and what isn't. Our child has never been spanked and he knows right and wrong because we explain to him what's wright and wrong and how doing something you are not suppose affects other people around him. I think it's way more affective way of discipline because a child deep down wants to do nothing more than please his or hers parents. You can especially see it at 4-5 years of age. I also believe in enforcing good behaviour by awarding good behaviour and ignoring bad behaviour. He won't do something wrong looking for a reaction from us because he knows it's not going to work. He gets the attention when he is good not when he is bad. I think if a child does something wrong and does not listen then it's time for a time out to make the child think about the whole situation and what he or she did wrong. This way the child learns to think on his own before he does something he is not suppose to. I much rather have a child who will have the inner sense of right and wrong than a robot who will act certain way around me only because he is afraid of being hit.


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## Geek (Jun 13, 2005)

AMEN SISTER, this very very well put. I could not put it any better than you did. :icon_love





Originally Posted by *Reija(admin)* 

Hurray for Sweden! and Finland too for that matter because yes spanking a child is illegal in Finland as well. Sweden and Finland are similar in a lot of matters since they are neighbours. Thanks for pointing it out Tussan! I agree with you about the shows when I watch them here in the US. Some of them are very shocking! Since I grew up in Finland and visited Sweden millions of times I have the scandinavian way of looking at child rearing. I promote breastfeeding and I'm against spanking. I've seen kids who are spanked and they don't behave any better then kids that aren't. Actually based on my observasions they many times behave worse. When a child is spanked he or she is made to behave a certain way out of fear and the child is not learning to think on their own what is proper behaviour and what isn't. Our child has never been spanked and he knows right and wrong because we explain to him what's wright and wrong and how doing something you are not suppose affects other people around him. I think it's way more affective way of discipline because a child deep down wants to do nothing more than please his or hers parents. You can especially see it at 4-5 years of age. I also believe in enforcing good behaviour by awarding good behaviour and ignoring bad behaviour. He won't do something wrong looking for a reaction from us because he knows it's not going to work. He gets the attention when he is good not when he is bad. I think if a child does something wrong and does not listen then it's time for a time out to make the child think about the whole situation and what he or she did wrong. This way the child learns to think on his own before he does something he is not suppose to. I much rather have a child who will have the inner sense of right and wrong than a robot who will act certain way around me only because he is afraid of being hit.


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## Pauline (Jun 13, 2005)

> Hurray for Sweden! and Finland too for that matter because yes spanking a child is illegal in Finland as well. Sweden and Finland are similar in a lot of matters since they are neighbours. Thanks for pointing it out Tussan! I agree with you about the shows when I watch them here in the US. Some of them are very shocking! Since I grew up in Finland and visited Sweden millions of times I have the scandinavian way of looking at child rearing. I promote breastfeeding and I'm against spanking. I've seen kids who are spanked and they don't behave any better then kids that aren't. Actually based on my observasions they many times behave worse. When a child is spanked he or she is made to behave a certain way out of fear and the child is not learning to think on their own what is proper behaviour and what isn't. Our child has never been spanked and he knows right and wrong because we explain to him what's wright and wrong and how doing something you are not suppose affects other people around him. I think it's way more affective way of discipline because a child deep down wants to do nothing more than please his or hers parents. You can especially see it at 4-5 years of age. I also believe in enforcing good behaviour by awarding good behaviour and ignoring bad behaviour. He won't do something wrong looking for a reaction from us because he knows it's not going to work. He gets the attention when he is good not when he is bad. I think if a child does something wrong and does not listen then it's time for a time out to make the child think about the whole situation and what he or she did wrong. This way the child learns to think on his own before he does something he is not suppose to. I much rather have a child who will have the inner sense of right and wrong than a robot who will act certain way around me only because he is afraid of being hit.[/QUOT
> 
> WELL SAID REIJA. i wish i had been brought up with parent's like you and Tony.


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## Andi (Jun 13, 2005)

Originally Posted by *smallpuppy* *Im totally against it!!!*



You won't believe this but I am 21 years old and I still get ocasionally spanked by my mom when she loses control. I am originally from venezuela(but have been in the states for 8 years) and it is ok for you to spank your kids there..it's not like in the states where you can call the police..etc..I came out ok..I am very studious..respect people however I have a very low self esteem eventhough people always tell me I'm beautiful..etc..and I still have the emotional scars when my mom spanked me..if you are a parent PLEASE don't do it!! YOu are showing your kid to be violent and to lose control..after all you want to teach them self control!!! *It also teaches your kids to be totally terrified of you and when they grow up they will never tell you what they are doing!! ANd if they do they will lie to you to try to avoid being spanked!! I know this because I do it still!!! If my mother wasn't the way she is I would tell her everything without the fear of being spanked!! Please you want a relationship with your kid!!!* OMG I canÂ´t believe your mum still spanks you at the age of 21. I donÂ´t know what to say-itÂ´s just wrong!!!
although my dad has only spanked me a few times when I was a child he liked to use another form of "punishment"-although he saw it as conversation I think, he never realized words can hurt. when i was a teenager he treated me like sh** almost every day, he told me to get things for him and do things and never said thank you a single time. I got yelled at for mistakes I didnÂ´t make and yelled at when I didnÂ´t do something the way he wanted it to. he told me that IÂ´m stupid and that I wonÂ´t be able to graduate from high shool because of that and that IÂ´ll probably never get a job cause I have no skills. he said that I wonÂ´t ever get half as rich and successful as he is. and the list goes on and on...

of course I always knew that he was wrong-and there were times when he was nice too, but out of nowhere he started treating me bad again. as a teenager I had a low self esteem as it was and when your father makes you feel like youÂ´re worthless it makes it only worse. today heÂ´s nice to me although we still donÂ´t talk that much even when weÂ´re in the same room. heÂ´s actually told me that heÂ´s proud of me (now that I actually HAVE finished high school *lol* and doing good in med school-which I only enrolled in just to please him btw but I ended up liking it). but still, I wonÂ´t ever be able to see him as a caring and loving father!!!!

I know this thread is about physical violence, I just wanted to bring in this aspect too. and btw, my dad was spanked as a child (and back then this was very common over here), he never talks about it but I know he doesnÂ´t approve physical violence-but he never understood that words can hurt too


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## Jennifer (Jun 14, 2005)

trisha, sorry. i wasn't trying to be nosey or anything. i was just wondering. sorry





okay, i think it's gotten to the point where unless you were abused or spanked, you can't say anything.

i was abused AND i was spanked. i was spanked when i was young and wouldn't listen. i was abused when i did nothing wrong. HUGE difference. my father used to be beat me for no reason, but when my mom knew i wasn't listening and knew i was just being a very bad kid, she spanked me. there's a difference.

i know all of us are disagreeing, but remember, WE LOVE EACH OTHER, so no hard feelings


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## Tussan (Jun 14, 2005)

Originally Posted by *girl_geek* Just a random thought ... doesn't ANY punishment (time-out, grounding, etc) do the same thing? If a child doesn't like the consequences of an action but still wants to do it, then they still may do it again and try not to get caught. Why would only spanking have this effect?
What's important is that regardless of how you punish your children, you somehow teach them moral values so that they won't want to do wrong things regardless of whether they think they'll get caught! (Of course that's probably easier said than done



)

Likewise, no matter how you punish your child, if you do it often and without showing enough love, the child may still grow up in fear of you even if you never lay a hand on them. Is yelling at a child and sending them to their room out of anger much different than hitting them out of anger? If you do it all the time wouldn't the child still grow up in fear of you?

Just some random thoughts!





You might think it gets the same effect regardless of witch method used, but IÂ´ve heard about studies showing that spanking creates that effect to a much higher degree for some reason.
You are so right that child raising is about giving the child their own moral values so that they do the right things regardless of punishing or not.

Of course you harm youÂ´re children by yelling at them as well and shouldnÂ´t do that, but for spanking are SO extremely out of the question (mostly from the society I was raised from) that I wouldnÂ´t even considering it to be a good idea.

About the "Supernanny"; we actually had the question up if the use of "naughty step" is actually to humiliating for the child, that sending them to their room is OK but not to be put on a specific place like that. IÂ´m not really sure what I think about that, but I think sending a child to itÂ´s room if he/she their has TV, computer games and so one hardly can be helping....

Reija &gt; ItÂ´s easy for me to see that we come from countries that are neighbours





//Jenny


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## Laura (Jun 14, 2005)

Originally Posted by *Tony(admin)* The police will arrest you if you BEAT your wife, but not your children. 
How ironic is that?

Ah but Tony there is a difference between BEATING an adult &amp; lightly spanking a child.
I read this thread with great interest. I was spanked as a child (about 5 times max) and it didnâ€™t do me any harm. I totally agree with what Envymi said.


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## NYAngel98 (Jun 15, 2005)

I just hope that if I ever did have a kid that they would be just be behaved naturally &amp; I wouldn't have to do anything




lol


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## Geek (Jun 15, 2005)

Originally Posted by *NYAngel98* 

I just hope that if I ever did have a kid that they would be just be behaved naturally &amp; I wouldn't have to do anything



lol 


Exactly Janelle. It's all in how you raise them. This is exactly how my children are.


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## breathless (Apr 9, 2006)

Originally Posted by *FeistyFemme* Obviously spanking is very controversial.
I don't see it as violence at all - I was spanked as a child, and I don't resent my mother (who was the only one who spanked me). Trust me, if I got a spanking, I'm sure I deserved it. She didn't spank me for just any little thing. I never was left with bruises, broken bones, welts, or anything else.

Believe me, I have turned out just fine. I don't advocate abuse by any means, but to me, spanking is not abuse.

ditto.


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## Nessicle (Apr 9, 2006)

Originally Posted by *FeistyFemme* Obviously spanking is very controversial.
I don't see it as violence at all - I was spanked as a child, and I don't resent my mother (who was the only one who spanked me). Trust me, if I got a spanking, I'm sure I deserved it. She didn't spank me for just any little thing. I never was left with bruises, broken bones, welts, or anything else.

Believe me, I have turned out just fine. I don't advocate abuse by any means, but to me, spanking is not abuse.

I'm with you on this one. 
I was spanked (or smacked as we call it over here!) as a child not to the point where it really hurt but to the point where I knew not to do whatever I had done again.

I got several warnings before i actually pushed my mum too far and she would give me a smack on the bottom. When I was really young I was wearing a nappy so she didnt hurt me. Or she'd smack my hands but she wouldnt ever hit me round the head because that would have been dangerous. I was a complete brat as a little kid and would bite my sisters and fight with them so I probably deserved it too!

I've turned out just fine and have the biggest amount of respect for my mum. She was a single parent with three kids and hardly any financial support, she was also only 23 how she coped I'll have no idea. She admits that because of the stresses she was under she didn't have much patience and because her mum had smacked her too only her mum used a belt on her backside. Not that I agree it is right but it was the 60's and that's the way it was done back then in most working class families.

I'll smack my children but only if they are misbehaving a lot and have been warned two or three times. I won't smack to leave a mark but to let them know who is boss and they have to stop misbehaving. I wouldnt do it in public because I wouldnt want to embarress myself like that.

I can't stand those parents who let their kids run riot in supermarkets and stuff and say in really pathetic voices "stop it now, come on". oooh it gets me mad!! lol!

I'm religious too and it says in the bible to discipline your children but I'm positive it doesnt condone physical abuse, and I'm pretty sure Jesus wouldnt have condoned it too! Physical abuse is smacking/hitting for no reason, brusing, leaving marks, braking bones - that stuff is horrific and it turns my stomach!


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## wondatwins2 (Apr 9, 2006)

Mrs Nessicle I totally agree with everything you have said! I got a total of 2 spankings from my mother( who was the only one who gave them ,never my father who was at home also)And I turned out great if i say so myself! And I don't turn around and blame her for anything because that was her form of discipline. All of us went to college, no jailbirds, and no mental cases!!



I think it all depends on the person! There is definitely a difference of abuse and spankings! I was not abused and think that it's wrong to say I was because i was spanked! And I just disagree with it being a form of abuse! And that's my opinion.


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## Nessicle (Apr 9, 2006)

Originally Posted by *wondatwins2* *Mrs Nessicle* I totally agree with everything you have said! I got a total of 2 spankings from my mother( who was the only one who gave them ,never my father who was at home also)And I turned out great if i say so myself! And I don't turn around and blame her for anything because that was her form of discipline. All of us went to college, no jailbirds, and no mental cases!!



I think it all depends on the person! There is definitely a difference of abuse and spankings! I was not abused and think that it's wrong to say I was because i was spanked! And I just disagree with it being a form of abuse! And that's my opinion. Mrs Nessicle - he he! I like it!! 
Yeah I know what you're saying about turning out ok. All the people I went school with, out of all of us, the ones who turned out bad were the ones who treat their parents like crap and had blatent disregard and disrespect for their parents. But their parents never did anything - they pussy footed around them instead, giving them money and no boundaries. Out of the majority of my friends I was the only one who was spanked and I'm the only one who ever did anything with my life and hasn't ended up pregnant at 16 leechng off of the benefits system instead of going out and getting a job (major problem in the UK). After seeing stuff like that I've vowed never to let my kids treat me with anything other than respect and love and if that involves a spank or two then that's what'll happen!

JMHO though, no disrespect to the way anybody brings their children up. Everyone has their own way and what works for them might not work for another family. But again i totally do not agree with physical and emotional abuse. Thats just wrong.

Me and all my sisters have done really well so far in life and all have a lot of respect and love for each other. I hate being away from them! I live at the other side of the city and wish I could see them everyday


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## mintesa (Apr 9, 2006)

Originally Posted by *Arielle* ok obviously I have no kids but IÂ´m completely with ya on that topic. violence is always wrong! and spanking is violence too in my eyes!
I donÂ´t remember being spanked a lot in my childhood. my mum never did. my dad only did when I did something really bad (which I still think wasnÂ´t justified) and he would always say "if you do this and that I will slap you so hard that your head will shake for a week". this is actually a movie quote and I think he though it was kinda "funny" so he always said that. but he never seriously hurt me.

well ONE time he must have been in a hell of a mood. me and my brother were in a little fight at the lunch table (that was when I was already like 15) and he told us to stop but we didnt. thatÂ´s when he threw a fork at my head!!! I thought this was the most brutal thing he ever did-and he never apologized, neither did my mum.

thatÂ´s one thing I donÂ´t like about some parents (including mine), they think all their actions are smart and 100% justified and they sometimes never question their actions. they think just cause theyÂ´re my parents theyÂ´re doing everything right and that I have to live with their decisions with out having the possibility to throw in my opinion

wow thats really mean. its not like he would throw a fork on some other parents kid. they think they can do with you what they want.


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## mintesa (Apr 9, 2006)

Originally Posted by *NYAngel98* I don't think you should beat the kid... but I absolutely CANNOT STAND when I'm out somewhere - and some kid is running around causing havoc and the parents are 5 feet away and apparently just ignore him. They do a simple... "So-n-So... stop that". and then when the kid continues to do what they're doing... "so-n-so stop that" and this continues for what seems like forever - and apparently they just don't care. I don't know how some of these new methods of parenting work - and although I don't have kids... I see parents out there that have no problem letting their kids act like animals &amp; disturb everyone around them while they just ignore it &amp; pretend like they don't know what's going on. This happened while we were sitting outside a Chili's restaurant last weekend... a group of like 5 people (2 in their 20's I would say, a few areound 9-10, and a kid who must've been about 4) Well the 4 year old proceeded to run through &amp; stomp on the bushes, take the beeper (that buzzes when your table is ready) and smash it the ground a million times, throw rocks at the building and cars parked right in front, and then scream at the top of his lungs... and I guess the 20 something year olds were his parents b/c all they said was "Michael. Stop that. Daddy says stop" and then returned to ignoring the kid while he continued to throw rocks. Drives me crazy!




Sorry... had to vent! lol they drive me crazy too.


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## mintesa (Apr 9, 2006)

i was spanked a lot by my mom. a lot. probably 3 a week. the worst i remember was when i was fighting with my cousin. she just fights me coz she knows my mom will beat me for it. my mom was on the toilet and shouted my name. so i went into the toilet. she said to stand still there, and then she spanked me with the hard end of the belt(while she was on the toilet). it hurt like hell, i had blue little spots all over my legs.

i remember the last time she spanked me, when i was around 15, she spanked me with a clotheshanger.

i remember all the times she spanked me, i wont forgive any, and i wont spank my kids either.

i have babysitted my little sister and my friends babies a lot. i know they are irritating sometimes, but they just want attention and try to get your attention in every way.

really, what could those little 2 feet humans even do, that is so horrible, that they have to be spanked?

i know my mom got spanked a lot when she was little, she has a broken finger, and a huge scar on her back, where my grandmom spearsed her with an umbrella.

enough is enough. i would have been the same Anna now, without the spanking, only now, when i miss my mom since she lives so far away, i always remember the spanking too, it makes me hate her.


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## Nessicle (Apr 9, 2006)

Originally Posted by *mintesa* i was spanked a lot by my mom. a lot. probably 3 a week. the worst i remember was when i was fighting with my cousin. she just fights me coz she knows my mom will beat me for it. my mom was on the toilet and shouted my name. so i went into the toilet. she said to stand still there, and then she spanked me with the hard end of the belt(while she was on the toilet). it hurt like hell, i had blue little spots all over my legs.i remember the last time she spanked me, when i was around 15, she spanked me with a clotheshanger.

i remember all the times she spanked me, i wont forgive any, and i wont spank my kids either.

i have babysitted my little sister and my friends babies a lot. i know they are irritating sometimes, but they just want attention and try to get your attention in every way.

really, what could those little 2 feet humans even do, that is so horrible, that they have to be spanked?

i know my mom got spanked a lot when she was little, she has a broken finger, and a huge scar on her back, *where my grandmom spearsed her with an umbrella.*

enough is enough. i would have been the same Anna now, without the spanking, only now, when i miss my mom since she lives so far away, i always remember the spanking too, it makes me hate her.

ouch! That's awful! Your poor mom! I think in terms of abuse and stuff that a lot of people abuse others because they were abused. I only partly believe this though as you know what is wrong. I was sexually abused as a young child but I know it was wrong and I would never do anything like that to any child, it makes me feel sick to the stomach. I believe that with smacking/spanking you must be in control because if you lose control then that's when it gets scary. If I did have to resort to a smacking of my child then I wouldn't make a habit of it.


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## mintesa (Apr 9, 2006)

Originally Posted by *smallpuppy* *Im totally against it!!!*



You won't believe this but I am 21 years old and I still get ocasionally spanked by my mom when she loses control. I am originally from venezuela(but have been in the states for 8 years) and it is ok for you to spank your kids there..it's not like in the states where you can call the police..etc..I came out ok..I am very studious..respect people however I have a very low self esteem eventhough people always tell me I'm beautiful..etc..and I still have the emotional scars when my mom spanked me..if you are a parent PLEASE don't do it!! YOu are showing your kid to be violent and to lose control..after all you want to teach them self control!!! *It also teaches your kids to be totally terrified of you and when they grow up they will never tell you what they are doing!! ANd if they do they will lie to you to try to avoid being spanked!! I know this because I do it still!!! If my mother wasn't the way she is I would tell her everything without the fear of being spanked!! Please you want a relationship with your kid!!!* same here, totally agree. i never told my mom anything, nothing. not even that i bought a new shirt, or a new pencil. or that i have a new friend in school.


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## LittleMissV (Dec 2, 2006)

Originally Posted by *No7fan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif Mother used a leather belt once



Ouch that would hurt!!


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## dioraddict_xo (Dec 2, 2006)

Spanking a child isnt right... i dont believe in it and i agree with how the facts claims it devalues a child and how it promotes a hitting model. I am currently taking a course in Social work and we are taught different forms of child abuse.. Although some may see it as a form of discipline, its viewed in todays society as child abuse, &amp; i just wish laws against spanking wouldve passed years ago... I hope you guys dont mind that i print this topic out.. just mainly for the diversity of many views and the information from Tony... I wouldnt mind writing my essay on this.


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## Indigowaters (Dec 5, 2006)

Originally Posted by *FeistyFemme* /img/forum/go_quote.gif Obviously spanking is very controversial.
I don't see it as violence at all - I was spanked as a child, and I don't resent my mother (who was the only one who spanked me). Trust me, if I got a spanking, I'm sure I deserved it. She didn't spank me for just any little thing. I never was left with bruises, broken bones, welts, or anything else.

Believe me, I have turned out just fine. I don't advocate abuse by any means, but to me, spanking is not abuse.

I'll have to cosign onto this. My mom did a wonderful job of raising me, but if I got out of line and was doing something I really had no business doing, of course I would get spanked. _Spanked_ not abused. Two totally different things. And I believe the post with the biblical references were taken out of context where it said "spare the rod spoil the child". It was saying that your child will not die if you correct them with the rod. With that said, I've turned out to be a highly-moral human being. I've never once been arrested or committed any acts of violence. I don't even like horror movies or action movies with too much blood. My mom didn't spank me every time I moved. That's abuse. But when a child gets beyond the point of talking and being rational and all other avenues have been tried, I think spanking can be used as a last resort.


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## speerrituall1 (Dec 5, 2006)

Originally Posted by *Indigowaters* /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'll have to cosign onto this. My mom did a wonderful job of raising me, but if I got out of line and was doing something I really had no business doing, of course I would get spanked. _Spanked_ not abused. Two totally different things. And I believe the post with the biblical references were taken out of context where it said "spare the rod spoil the child". It was saying that your child will not die if you correct them with the rod. With that said, I've turned out to be a highly-moral human being. I've never once been arrested or committed any acts of violence. I don't even like horror movies or action movies with too much blood. My mom didn't spank me every time I moved. That's abuse. But when a child gets beyond the point of talking and being rational and all other avenues have been tried, I think spanking can be used as a last resort.


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## rlise (Dec 5, 2006)

spanking is ok in my eyes. i mean if you spank your kid more then actually talk to your child well then you are giong to have issues w/ that kid being more phsyically violent. but when a good butt whopping is in order i give it , my son is 3 and he hurts his lil brother on a daily basis ON PURPOSE, now most of the time he gets a time-out or gets sent to his room for a few. but when i gotten tired of repeating myself and tanner is bruised all over, then chase gets his rear end tore up!

also i believe it GREATLY depends upon the childs personality , there are kids that are rather intelligent and can understand you and have calm attitudes. however like my 3yr who is loud, crazy, doesnt want to hear anything, etcc... my kid needs a good butt whopping to put him back in check, but like the other types of kids prolly dont require them. its all about temperment IMO. shot in my city , pretty much every young kid i see in public is usually getting his hide tore up because he/she is acting like a fool and is old enough to behave properly.

its my right as parent to make sure my kids have manners, just like the first couple of replies to this post stated, some people let there kids ruin others time at a resturant or wherever. i will be damned if i allow my kid to a0 behave like that B) have people talking about my kids!

ok im done! LMAO


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## han (Dec 5, 2006)

Originally Posted by *NYAngel98* /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't think you should beat the kid... but I absolutely CANNOT STAND when I'm out somewhere - and some kid is running around causing havoc and the parents are 5 feet away and apparently just ignore him. They do a simple... "So-n-So... stop that". and then when the kid continues to do what they're doing... "so-n-so stop that" and this continues for what seems like forever - and apparently they just don't care. I don't know how some of these new methods of parenting work - and although I don't have kids... I see parents out there that have no problem letting their kids act like animals &amp; disturb everyone around them while they just ignore it &amp; pretend like they don't know what's going on. This happened while we were sitting outside a Chili's restaurant last weekend... a group of like 5 people (2 in their 20's I would say, a few areound 9-10, and a kid who must've been about 4) Well the 4 year old proceeded to run through &amp; stomp on the bushes, take the beeper (that buzzes when your table is ready) and smash it the ground a million times, throw rocks at the building and cars parked right in front, and then scream at the top of his lungs... and I guess the 20 something year olds were his parents b/c all they said was "Michael. Stop that. Daddy says stop" and then returned to ignoring the kid while he continued to throw rocks. Drives me crazy!



Sorry... had to vent! lol i know that drives you crazy when parents look the other way, but what drives me crazy and piss me off is when out in public and the child acts up then the parent starts yelling,curseing im gonna beat your ass and starts hitting the child that is now worst than befor because there screaming , im like wow! the parent knows better but is acting worst than the child.. and spanking is not ok in my house


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## Indigowaters (Dec 5, 2006)

Originally Posted by *han* /img/forum/go_quote.gif i know that drives you crazy when parents look the other way, but what drives me crazy and piss me off is when out in public and the child acts up then the parent starts yelling,curseing im gonna beat your ass and starts hitting the child that is now worst than befor because there screaming , im like wow! the parent knows better but is acting worst than the child.. and spanking is not ok in my house I have to agree with both sides. I hate when a parent doesn't have their child in order but I hate when a mother is trying to knock her child's back in. I almost want to shake her myself. I got little taps on my hand that didn't even sting to communicate when something was not tolerable as a child. As I grew bigger I got spankings for very serious stuff (and I could probably count how many on one hand). But I hate it when parents just do nothing and let their kids run all around knocking stuff over and misbehaving. Those are the worst parents to me. Then they act as if no one can say anything to their child even when they are doing things to other people! I say if you don't want to raise them and teach them how to act, why have them?


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## han (Dec 5, 2006)

Originally Posted by *Indigowaters* /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have to agree with both sides. I hate when a parent doesn't have their child in order but I hate when a mother is trying to knock her child's back in. I almost want to shake her myself. I got little taps on my hand that didn't even sting to communicate when something was not tolerable as a child. As I grew bigger I got spankings for very serious stuff (and I could probably count how many on one hand). But I hate it when parents just do nothing and let their kids run all around knocking stuff over and misbehaving. Those are the worst parents to me. Then they act as if no one can say anything to their child even when they are doing things to other people! I say if you don't want to raise them and teach them how to act, why have them? hi there indigowater i have no doubt in my mind that your mother did a great job raiseing you.. what ever she did i give her credit


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## Indigowaters (Dec 5, 2006)

Originally Posted by *han* /img/forum/go_quote.gif hi there indigowater i have no doubt in my mind that your mother did a great job raiseing you.. what ever she did i give her credit



Thanks!


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## Little_Lisa (Dec 6, 2006)

Originally Posted by *Indigowaters* /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have to agree with both sides. I hate when a parent doesn't have their child in order but I hate when a mother is trying to knock her child's back in. I almost want to shake her myself. I got little taps on my hand that didn't even sting to communicate when something was not tolerable as a child. As I grew bigger I got spankings for very serious stuff (and I could probably count how many on one hand). But I hate it when parents just do nothing and let their kids run all around knocking stuff over and misbehaving. Those are the worst parents to me. Then they act as if no one can say anything to their child even when they are doing things to other people! I say if you don't want to raise them and teach them how to act, why have them? Amen!


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## Saja (Dec 6, 2006)

Originally Posted by *han* /img/forum/go_quote.gif i know that drives you crazy when parents look the other way, but what drives me crazy and piss me off is when out in public and the child acts up then the parent starts yelling,curseing im gonna beat your ass and starts hitting the child that is now worst than befor because there screaming , im like wow! the parent knows better but is acting worst than the child.. and spanking is not ok in my house I agree. That bothers me to...there was a woman yellling at her teenage daughter in the store i work last night. It was just pathetic. When a child is acting up though, thats when its time for mommy ( or daddy) to take child and leave. Either leave for good , or at least take child to the car till they calm down.


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## Aquilah (Dec 6, 2006)

Luckily, I've never had my kids do anything worthwhile of spanking... Even if so, I'm not sure I could do it! Having grown up in a home where spankings seemed to be given out for almost any behavior really did it in for me!


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## Intrigue (Dec 7, 2006)

Without spanking I believe kids become spoiled. I'm not saying to constantly spank them, but I don't think it hurts. Sometimes it's the only way they'll learn. I know I was that way. lol


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## Tabitha (Dec 22, 2006)

My thoughts on making the decision to spank should be left up to the parents and I don't think a person should be condemned for it as long as it's not abusive. While I'm all for trying timeouts and other methods of discipline, sometimes it just does not work whereas a spanking will definitely get a child's attention. Example: Your child keeps running out in the street do you say to them (a) if you do that again I'm going to put you in timeout or ( B) if you do that again and I'm going to beat your ass! Which one do you think is going to grab their attention?! LOL! (Just trying to add a little humor.)

Seriously though, I don't see how a spanking inhibits a child in any form unless it's abusive. When I was growing up we walked the line in comparison to children today and if we misbehaved at school the teachers had no problems taking us behind the cubby holes and paddling our behinds. Was it embarrassing? Yes, I'd say so, but I'm sure it made some of the kids think about what was acceptable behaviour and what wasn't. Did the threat of a paddling cause fear? Again, yes I'm sure it did, but if made a person think and make wiser decisions how could it be detrimental?

In my homelife, my dad was the disciplinarian. We didn't get whippings very often, but when we did we knew it because we were whipped with a belt. He'd always warn us beforehand and if we chose not to listen then we got punished for it. Did the whippings make him a bad person? No, I don't think so since all 3 of us turned out to be decent people in my opinion.

The thing I find interesting though is the decline of society (in my opinion) over the generations. Society in general has supposedly become more enlightened saying we don't do this to our kids and we can't do that, but yet the kids seem to keep getting worse. Afterall, when I was a teen (in the 80's) you didn't hear of stuff like mass school shootings and the like and I thought my generation was a rowdy group at the time. Also, I don't remember any debates back then about spanking/corporal punishment. Maybe spanking is old school and I should be above it, but sometimes I wonder if the lack of it isn't part of the problem.


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## Shelley (Dec 22, 2006)

I don't have children but if I ever do I will never spank. I was spanked as a young child but that progressed to worse as I became older. When I was around 7, maybe younger, I remember my mom using words as weapons, emotional abuse to intimidate me and that lasted throught the teenage years. Sometimes she would slap or pinch me as I got older. Did it make a difference, no! In fact I became more terrified of her as a parent and anyone who raised a hand scared me. This is off topic in relation to the subject, but after surviving a recent and very violent relationship, I now really hate any form of physical discipline.


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## StereoXGirl (Dec 22, 2006)

Great articles, Tony!





Honestly, I was spanked regularly as a child (when I was misbehaving, that is) and I turned out fine.

I think there is a big difference between spanking a child as punishment for misbehavior and spanking/beating/abusing a child out of anger.


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## MissMudPie (Dec 22, 2006)

I agree, StereoXGirl.

Where I live, spanking is really common. School administrators still spank kids, and I've only heard one person voice an opinion against spanking (my educational psychology professor).

I have cousins whose parents tried time-outs, counting to 3, grounding, taking away privileges, and nothing except spanking has gotten through to them. Every parent and child is different, though, and I don't think there is a one-size-fits all discipline method. There were things my parents (who were really young) did that I think were wrong, but I don't think spanking me was one of them.

I've never thought much about the biblical reasons for spanking. I don't take the Bible so literally, and I try to put things into cultural context. Good parenting in the middle east 2000 years ago isn't necessarily what is good today in the US.

Personally, I can't bring myself to spank a kid, but I won't criticize someone who does it to discipline their kids as long as it isn't out of anger.


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## Geek (Dec 23, 2006)

Spanking to benefit the parents in all cases. How can one expect to show their children that remaining in control of yourself is soooooo important when you as the spanker are NOT in control? Common united states bologna.

The way a spanking looks and feels must be confusing for children. How can they tell what it means? Parents are their example of what is right and good. Parents' behavior is their example of what love looks and feels like. Hitting a child seems to say that it is all right to hit people... even loved ones. When a person wants to control others, it must be okay to hit them, spanking seems to say. For children whose parents tell them that hitting is wrong, hitting might also seem to say that it is all right to do something that is wrong. It certainly does not show or say to the child what behavior is wanted.

Here is a quote I found:

â€œI got hit when I was a kid and I turned out OKâ€

Being spanked is an emotional event. Adults often remember with crystal clarity times they were paddled or spanked as children. Many adults look back on corporal punishment in childhood with great anger and sadness. Sometimes people say, â€œI was spanked as a child, and I deserved itâ€. It is hard for us to believe that people who loved us would intentionally hurt us. We feel the need to excuse that hurt. Studies show that even a few instances of being hit as children are associated with more depressive symptoms as adults (Strauss, 1994, Strassberg, Dodge, Pettit &amp; Bates, 1994). A landmark meta-analysis of 88 corporal punishment research studies of over six decades showed that corporal punishment of children was associated with negative outcomes including increased delinquent and antisocial behavior, increased risk of child abuse and spousal abuse, increased risk of child aggression and adult aggression, decreased child mental health and decreased adult mental health (Gershoff, 2002). While most of us who were spanked â€œturned out OKâ€, it is likely that not being spanked would have helped us turn out to be healthier.


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## Aquilah (Dec 23, 2006)

For me, spanking eventually turned into getting slapped or punched by my parents... Yes, this has definitely affected me as to this day, I still freak out when someone's hand comes to close to my face! Or whenever I hear the words, "This hurts me more than this hurts you," just takes me back to being spanked...


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## Shelley (Dec 23, 2006)

Originally Posted by *Aquilah* /img/forum/go_quote.gif For me, spanking eventually turned into getting slapped or punched by my parents... Yes, this has definitely affected me as to this day, I still freak out when someone's hand comes to close to my face! Or whenever I hear the words, "This hurts me more than this hurts you," just takes me back to being spanked... I agree and know exactly what you mean.


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## Geek (Dec 24, 2006)

Originally Posted by *Aquilah* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 

For me, spanking eventually turned into getting slapped or punched by my parents... Yes, this has definitely affected me as to this day, I still freak out when someone's hand comes to close to my face! Or whenever I hear the words, "This hurts me more than this hurts you," just takes me back to being spanked... 


This is exactly what I am talking about. Sorry to hear that AQ.
Hopefully you don't spank now.


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## Aquilah (Dec 24, 2006)

Nope, we don't spank... John was kinda abused as a kid too, so neither of us can bring ourselves to do it.


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## Geek (Dec 24, 2006)

Originally Posted by *Aquilah* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 

Nope, we don't spank... John was kinda abused as a kid too, so neither of us can bring ourselves to do it. 


Well, that's good news. Very sorry to hear about that.


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## ivette (Dec 24, 2006)

there are definetly other better methods to discipline a child( time outs, taking priviledges away, etc)

but, i don't think an occasional smack on the butt is going

to mess up a kid for life


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## Aquilah (Dec 24, 2006)

Originally Posted by *Tony(admin)* /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, that's good news. Very sorry to hear about that. Thanks T! John's pretty much let go and made amends with his past, but it still tends to haunt me from time to time... I need to learn to let go myself!


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## han (Dec 24, 2006)

Originally Posted by *weno88* /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree, StereoXGirl.
Where I live, spanking is really common. School administrators still spank kids, and I've only heard one person voice an opinion against spanking (my educational psychology professor).

I have cousins whose parents tried time-outs, counting to 3, grounding, taking away privileges, and nothing except spanking has gotten through to them. Every parent and child is different, though, and I don't think there is a one-size-fits all discipline method. There were things my parents (who were really young) did that I think were wrong, but I don't think spanking me was one of them.

I've never thought much about the biblical reasons for spanking. I don't take the Bible so literally, and I try to put things into cultural context. Good parenting in the middle east 2000 years ago isn't necessarily what is good today in the US.

Personally, I can't bring myself to spank a kid, but I won't criticize someone who does it to discipline their kids as long as it isn't out of anger.

since your physchology professor spoke against it that should of spoke volumes a red light should of went off..lol when i was in school i refuse to let them paddel me my first grade teacher would take a ruler and hit us on our knukles as i got older and braver i refuse for them to use physical punishment i took the secondary detention or what ever


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## Tabitha (Dec 24, 2006)

Well, I definitely feel for the people where punishment escalated into being punched and slapped, which I would definitely say falls into the abuse category. We just got the spanking/whippings whatever you want to call it and we were warned beforehand. I'm not talking about being spanked for spilling a glass a milk or something minor, we got it for such offenses as telling lies, being disrespectful or blatantly being disobedient. When it comes to spanking there are always going to be those who are for it and against it.


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## aprilpgb22 (Dec 27, 2006)

Okay i have to disagree with the topic do not spank. I have to agree with a very small portion of it. I think it is all about the child. When me and my sister and cousins were growing up my we got spankings or more so we called them whippings. I was just speaking to a girl that works with me regarding my son and she was saying when all else fails, it is time to pull out the belt. The bible says do not spare the rod. If anyone can't find it I will get the scripture for you later. My sister and i only had to get maybe 10 whippings up until the time we turned 13. We knew better, we didn't want that. I beleive it helped discipline us we knew that our Mom meant business and she wouldn't have done it if she didn't want us to know that whatever we done was wrong.

Now as far as a girl i knew that father took a belt across her eye, scarred her and her siblings up and put one in the hospital that is abuse. These kids that are so hard to get control over and hit their parents and curse them out are the ones who have never seen a good axx whipping. Most kids who don't get whippings and i am saying most turn out having some type of problem, because they have lack of discipline. There has to be some type of pinch, thump, or hit on hand with a ruler. Sorry the naughty chair just doesn't cut it. Now my boy cousins one got whippings 3 or 4 times a day and he is 25 and in jail a highschool drop out and done everything under the sun that you can think of. So no, whippings/spankings don't work for every child. But majority of the time it does.

That is just my real life experience, it happens everyday on Jerry and Maury show, the kids that never had any type of whippings are out here slapping and disrespecting their parents. This is just acutal and factual.


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## Geek (Dec 28, 2006)

Originally Posted by *aprilpgb22* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 

The bible says do not spare the rod. If anyone can't find it I will get the scripture for you later. 


Maybe you missed my #6 from the beginning of this thread where I do mention bible verses:

*6. HITTING IS ACTUALLY NOT BIBLICAL *

Don't use the Bible as an excuse to spank. There is confusion in the ranks of people of Judeo-Christian heritage who, seeking help from the Bible in their effort to raise godly children, believe that God commands them to spank. They take "spare the rod and spoil the child" seriously and fear that if they don't spank, they will commit the sin of losing control of their child. In our counseling experience, we find that these people are devoted parents who love God and love their children, but they misunderstand the concept of the rod.

Rod verses - what they really mean. The following are the biblical verseswhich have caused the greatest confusion:

"Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him." (Prov. 22:15)

"He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him." (Prov. 13:24)

"Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die. Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death." (Prov. 23:13-14)

"The rod of correction imparts wisdom, but a child left to itself disgraces his mother." (Prov. 29:15)

At first glance these verses may sound pro-spanking. But you might consider a different interpretation of these teachings. "Rod" (shebet) means different things in different parts of the Bible. The Hebrew dictionary gives this word various meanings: a stick (for punishment, writing, fighting, ruling, walking, etc.). While the rod could be used for hitting, it was more frequently used for guiding wandering sheep. Shepherds didn't use the rod to beat their sheep - and children are certainly more valuable than sheep. As shepherd-author Philip Keller teaches so well in A Shepherd Looks At Psalm 23, the shepherd's rod was used to fight off prey and the staff was used to gently guide sheep along the right path. ("Your rod and your staff, they comfort me." â€“ Psalm 23:4).

Jewish families we've interviewed, who carefully follow dietary and lifestyle guidelines in the Scripture, do not practice "rod correction" with their children because they do not follow that interpretation of the text.

The book of Proverbs is one of poetry. It is logical that the writer would have used a well-known tool to form an image of authority. We believe that this is the point that God makes about the rod in the Bible â€“ parents take charge of your children. When you re-read the "rod verses," use the concept of parental authority when you come to the word "rod," ratherthan the concept of beating or spanking. It rings true in every instance.

While Christians and Jews believe that the Old Testament is the inspired word of God, it is also a historical text that has been interpreted in many ways over the centuries, sometimes incorrectly in order to support the beliefs of the times. These "rod" verses have been burdened with interpretations about corporal punishment that support human ideas. Other parts of the Bible, especially the New Testament, suggest that respect, authority, and tenderness should be the prevailing attitudes toward children among people of faith.

In the New Testament, Christ modified the traditional eye-for-an-eye system of justice with His turn-the-other-cheek approach. Christ preached gentleness, love, and understanding, and seemed against any harsh use of the rod, as stated by Paul in 1 Cor. 4:21: "Shall I come to you with the whip (rod), or in love and with a gentle spirit?" Paul went on to teach fathers about the importance of not provoking anger in their children (which is what spanking usually does): "Fathers, do not exasperate your children" (Eph. 6:4), and "Fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will be discouraged" (Col. 3:21).

In our opinion, nowhere in the Bible does it say you must spank your child to be a godly parent.

SPARE THE ROD!There are parents who should not spank and children who should not be spanked. Are there factors in your history, your temperament, or your relationship with your child that put you at risk for abusing your child? Are there characteristics in your child that make spanking unwise?


Were you abused as a child? 
Do you lose control of yourself easily? 
Are you spanking more, with fewer results? 
Are you spanking harder? 
Is spanking not working? 
Do you have a high-need child? A strong-willed child? 
Is your child ultrasensitive? 
Is your relationship with your child already distant? 
Are there present situations that are making you angry, such as financial or marital difficulties or a recent job loss? Are there factors that are lowering your own self-confidence?
If the answer to any of these queries is yes, you would be wise to develop a no-spanking mindset in your home and do your best to come up with noncorporal alternatives. If you find you are unable to do this on your own, talk with someone who can help you.


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## jessiej78 (Dec 29, 2006)

Tony-

I have to say I'm impressed with the amount of research you obviously have done on this topic. I have to say- I spanked my son when he was younger. I never really did feel completely "right" about it. I usually let my husband do it. I wish now I would not have. In the future when we have more kids, I most certainly will not be spanking them, EVER. I was abused as a child. And I do think the cycle easily repeats itself. There were times when I knew I was spankning more for myself, to vent my own anger.

Thanks for bringing to light a subject that really is deserving of discussion. We all need to ask ourselves... what are our TRUE motives when and if we are spanking our chidlren?????


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## Kimmers86 (Dec 29, 2006)

I got spanked like, twice, maybe...ever. Me and my bros only got spanked if we did something SERIOUSLY wrong after we had been repeatedly told not to. My parents were very good about laying down the rules and making sure we followed them without having to be punished. I don't think spanking is a good route, you can definitely find a better way to discipline a child. But honestly, sometimes I think my nephews could benefit from it!


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## Gwendela (Jan 3, 2007)

I remember acting up in school and getting spanked for it. I remember the burning tears and the humiliation, but I do not remember any physical pain. So a spank on the behind might seem like an excellent way to get a child's attention, but it can also be a way to humiliate a young impressionable person.


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## Arrode (Jan 4, 2007)

I think I was a bit overspanked. My mom's asian and she is quite fond of things such as clotheshangers, wooden cooking spoons, etc. If I did anything even minutely wrong, I got spanked. I even got spanked sometimes when I wasn't at FAULT for anything, just she thought I was. As a result, I have a very bad relationship with her now and I hardly if ever talk to her. She was very verbally abusive at times when I was a young teenager so it's difficult for me to really talk to her. My younger sisters didn't nearly get hit as much as she hit me, so they're not as terified of a hand coming close to their faces (I still wince, sometimes) or talking to them in a social manner.

As for me, I would not hit my children with any weapon, such as my crazy asian mom did to me. At most, I would give them a smack or two on the butt, but nothing as severe as some of the beatings I got as a kid.

And as previously stated, each severe spanking is etched into my memory. I can recall being hit for the most obscure reasons from a decade ago.


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## pinkbundles (Jan 5, 2007)

Well, my parents spanked me and my brother like a mother! And b/c I was so afraid of getting spanked, when they gave me THE LOOK, I behaved almost instantaneously. Though I hated them for it back then (I don't hate them for it now), I think I turned out fine. On the other hand, they didn't do that with my two younger sibs and well....

Anyway, I don't really spank my kids. I mean, I would have to be really, really, really angry and they would have to have done something reallly, really, really bad for me to spank them in the butt. So as you can imagine, it almost never happens.

I think most kids nowadays need to get beats now and then (sorry if this offends anyone)! Seriously! Maybe there would be less gang-related activities, less teen pregnancies and less drink/drug related problems, etc.


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## lummerz (Jan 15, 2007)

gee! well...i grew up in a household where spanking was a regular thing ( whether warranted or not) and what goes around..comes around..though, luckily i've never spanked my daugher or anything...i'd feel way too guilty and i couldn't make her feel what i felt....though i have at times just couldn't handle certain moments and have yelled at her..but then i'd feel bad and tell her i'm sorry and explained why i was angry...but even then that's not good enough cuz sometimes i can see her lashing out on herself or toys..but that's not very often..but when i do see it..it hits reality. Luckily she doesn't act like that when she plays with other kids..and i really have to keep a watch for that.

I do tend to settle back into my roots if someone provokes me, i won't hesitate to lash and strike a person..but i have to be severely provoked and if someone doesn't get it, when i say, "leave me alone..or go away", then i think it's warranted. I didn't really grow up any different, except a lot of yelling and beating..but i'm fairly well aware of myself...luckily, once i moved out...my life was amazing....so i take the good with the bad. As long as you try, who's to tell you any different.


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## Chaela (Jan 16, 2007)

Originally Posted by *lummerz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif if someone provokes me, i won't hesitate to lash and strike a person..but i have to be severely provoked and if someone doesn't get it, when i say, "leave me alone..or go away", then i think it's warranted. I'm like that too! I was spanked a couple of times when I was a child but only when I did something I knew I wasn't supposed to do like trying to climb on the stove. I could of been seriously hurt and I had been told several times not to go near the stove because I could get hurt but I still did, so I got spanked. *There is a huge difference between spanking a child because they were deliberately disobeying and abusing your child, and if there is even the slightest chance that you spanking your child will lead to you becoming abusive maybe you shouldn't be having kids.* I think its possibly the dumbest thing to happen to America that it has gotten to the point where you are not allowed to even discipline your OWN child. *Discipline NOT abuse. There is a major difference.*


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## Nox (Jan 21, 2007)

In general, I don't think spanking is needed for most situations. Even for some children in the most severe of situations, a parent can get pretty creative for punishments in lieu of spanking.

I think if I didn't have the upbring I did, then I just might have considered occasional spanking, but today, it is definitely a no-go for me.

Growing up, a soft spanking was considered an open hand on a vulnerable body part, and leaving a bruise. The typical ones, however, ranged form spatulas, to belts, and my father's perennial favorite...the clothes hanger. He would beat be so badly with the hanger, it would break to pieces, and then he would use the broken peices to hit me some more until he was tired. The absolute worse was being beating with both his hands at close range with his full force...got a nice swollen eye and a bloody nose with that one. But I guess the worst was my parents' mentally and verbally abusive nature. It was hellish getting tormented in middle school only to come back to the same thing at home. Yikes.

Because if this experience, I now have thoughts of terror where pleasant childhood memories should have been. I will NEVER condone spanking for my future children, and ruin their childhood memories. If my future children are anything like I was temperament-wise, then spanking will do absolutely no good. I was one of those children that really didn't need it, as I was a timid child by nature.

I have made sure I let my husband know where I stand, and he totally supports me on this 100%. A no spanking household is the law in my house, and that will extend to my children's grandparents...


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## CellyCell (Aug 17, 2007)

I gotta revive this thread since Tony brought it up.

Originally Posted by *Tabitha* /img/forum/go_quote.gif My thoughts on making the decision to spank should be left up to the parents and I don't think a person should be condemned for it as long as it's not abusive. While I'm all for trying timeouts and other methods of discipline, sometimes it just does not work whereas a spanking will definitely get a child's attention. Example: Your child keeps running out in the street do you say to them (a) if you do that again I'm going to put you in timeout or ( B) if you do that again and I'm going to beat your ass! Which one do you think is going to grab their attention?! LOL! (Just trying to add a little humor.) 
Seriously though, I don't see how a spanking inhibits a child in any form unless it's abusive. When I was growing up we walked the line in comparison to children today and if we misbehaved at school the teachers had no problems taking us behind the cubby holes and paddling our behinds. Was it embarrassing? Yes, I'd say so, but I'm sure it made some of the kids think about what was acceptable behaviour and what wasn't. Did the threat of a paddling cause fear? Again, yes I'm sure it did, but if made a person think and make wiser decisions how could it be detrimental?

In my homelife, my dad was the disciplinarian. We didn't get whippings very often, but when we did we knew it because we were whipped with a belt. He'd always warn us beforehand and if we chose not to listen then we got punished for it. Did the whippings make him a bad person? No, I don't think so since all 3 of us turned out to be decent people in my opinion.

The thing I find interesting though is the decline of society (in my opinion) over the generations. Society in general has supposedly become more enlightened saying we don't do this to our kids and we can't do that, but yet the kids seem to keep getting worse. Afterall, when I was a teen (in the 80's) you didn't hear of stuff like mass school shootings and the like and I thought my generation was a rowdy group at the time. Also, I don't remember any debates back then about spanking/corporal punishment. Maybe spanking is old school and I should be above it, but sometimes I wonder if the lack of it isn't part of the problem.

I had to agree with this mostly out of all responses.
Obviously, there's a difference between abuse and discipline in forms of punishment. I have recieved both. And also all other alternative as a kid.

Spanking as a discipline - in hindsight did not affect my self worth or esteem as I grew older. It taught me from right and wrong... and in honesty, I don't remember getting anything severe. My mom and family members would say I was really spoiled and a crybaby younger so it was pretty much a last resort type deal. I don't hate my mom for nothing and she did it the right way, I believe. Spankings here and there but mostly told me, "if you want this and that, behave good". As for my father, I remember him using the belt. But he was more the abusive type than disciplinary and has hit me now that I'm a grown adult. Very rarely, but has. But what affects children more, and people don't fully realize this, is the emotional abuse. I rather take an ass whopping than have my dad say to me, "you're a bad person. you're useless, you're fat... etc". That has affected me till this day as an adult. Kids can remember anything you say. I know this because I work with kids... and jeez do they have awesome memories from thing you've said and forgot.

Funny thing is my youngest sister only got spanked probably once in her life and she's turned out MUCH MORE disrespectful towards my parents. Not to say she is a bad child, but she gets away with a lot of things I never could have when I was her age. I feel resentment for that if anything. I encourage my mom to beat her ass once in awhile, haha. She never does but they do threaten her. My mother realizes we are both different. Me getting spanked as a child because I was always getting into trouble turned out well-behaved. Sister who never got disciplined is turning into a spoil brat. Haha. I have to say she has better esteem than I had at her age because she's a lot closer to my father and he never said an awful thing to her or put her done like he has towards me. Ever. :S

Do I condone spanking? Yes &amp; No. It all depends on the child, the situation, and the parent. I would never put an object as a hitting device to my child. But when I do have children, I would not rule out spanking - if all fails, it'd be a last resort. And I have to say, spanking is not a "USA" way of thinking. We are a melting pot of different diversity and I know in the Latin community - it's a way of life. "Old School" thinking... yeah. But you can't say it's not affective. To compare a child to a slave is pretty crazy. *It's how it's done or what is said that affects the child.*

A. My mom was spanked. But it was done to correct behavior. Therefor, she did it to me to correct my behavior. Her mother (my grandmother) is probably sweetest person you'll ever meet and did this to all 7 of her kids. All turned out to be successful in life w/ good jobs and healthy relationships with their kids. Whatever mishaps/issues they have later in life is because of their own actions, it does not go back to being spanked as a kid when little.

B. My father was spanked + emotional abuse from mother. I can't think much for his father (my grandpa) because he never speaks of him. But from my own relationship with my grandma (his mom) she is very emotional abusive. Has 6 kids. 3 of them are in jail. 1 is sick. My aunt and father act the same and punish the same. My aunt worse than him since she spanks and abuses her kids often. They have turned out with much more issues and 3 of her kids left her household and her daughter stayed behind. My family, from some might have read, tried getting away from my father.

I have to point out that my issues arise only towards my father. It did not affect my self-worth, like I said before. I learned a lot from his mistakes. His actions affected my self-esteem... but my mother's discipline did not. If that makes sense?

Again, I have no issues with spanking as a form of punishment but it's how its done and what's being said that affects the child. NOT the spanking alone.

Also, I learned this in psychology class:

"The key to effective punishment is to use it less often."

That quote I took out of my psychology book that discusses punishing kids/adolescents effectively. It did not oppose to spanking but it did not agree with it. "Children who are subjected to a lot of physical punishment tend to become more aggressive..." Key words: A LOT. It stated it should never be harsh physical punishment/discipline. And pointed out many other useful alternatives I'm sure you have posted already, Tony. I'm sure harsh to you might mean spanking. Harsh to others might mean using belts, whips, etc.

Either way, affective parenting is always down to communication and being authoritative. And solely pointing out that spanking can bring up a corrupt child have to remember the whole nature vs. nurture deal aswell.

You may have not ever spanked your child as a kid and gave them "time-outs" but does that guaranteed your child would grow up to be well-behaved, morally good, cheerful, self-confident adolescents/adult?


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## BeneBaby (Aug 17, 2007)

Coming from a home that spanking was normal....I don't think it's okay. I was terrified of my Mother and Step-Father because of hitting. I was a really good kid, but I would have a panic attack if I got a low grade on a test...that meant a possible spank. I do not consider my parents physically abusive, they were more emotionally abusive.

Sadly I notice some of the after effects of spanking in my personality. When I get really angry I feel myself wanting to lash out and throw things and possibly hit. It's hard for me to maintain a calm feeling when I am angry. I could never dream of hitting my niece or a child of my own because I know how demeaning spankings feel.


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## Tyari (Jul 19, 2009)

Wow!! What a powerful message!!! Thanks for sharing!!!


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## Smookynj (Jul 19, 2009)

OK, I wasn't going to reply but after reading the first couple of post I was like "WOW". For me its to each it's own. I will spank my son if need be. I don't go all out and straight abuse him. I got my share of spankings when I was growing up by my mother and grandmother. Dat crap hurt like hell but it made me a better person. I did sum wrong...never did or sold drugs cuz I was scared ass hell to. Some of the things I done I didn't do again after that spanking. No I don't spank my son just because my parents did it to me and therefore it makes it right. Just like you don't spank your children just bcuz ur parents didn't do it to you so therefore it makes it right. TO EACH ITS OWN. NYAngel98 was talking about one of those situations I can't stand OMG, I can't stand that and my son wouldn't dare embarass me in public like that. I sit and talk to my son more than anything but if i see talking and time out isn't working then I sit him down and talk over on why he's getting that spanking and he gets it then I don't have to worry about him doing it again. This IS a touchy subject cause every1 is from different backgrounds, religious beliefs, places, so on and so fourth. You cant change how people think and how they handle their situations cuz if we could I wouldn't be going back n fourth to Iraq and Afghan. I'm pretty sure some1 can make articles on why you should spank your child cause sometimes these children be running over their parents for what they think is the lack there of. Just know that every parent that spanks isn't abusive.


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## Aprill (Jul 19, 2009)

I have never read this before today!!!

But anyway. I am 100% against spanking, I am going to agree to disagree but what's good for the goose, aint for the gander


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## TwinkletOes26 (Jul 20, 2009)

Just finished reading the whole thread and as i type this i have tears in my eyes. I was spanked/beat with extension cords,switches,ive been slapped and pinched. My mother once punched me in my developing boobies(can we say already sore boobies being punched) all bc some girls in the hair salon said "i was a trip". My mother figured i was saying something bad. Ive been in the past and now constantly accused of sexual acts with men. When i was 12 my mother would always say she saw me looking at whatever old man was around. I would tell her i wasnt and she screamed at me i was.Everything was always my fault. I would have an issue with someone and she would always say "well if you quit talking so much" shes an introvert and i am not. She thinks that introverts are good and extroverts are bad. She even says stuff like that now. Earlier she told me i didnt have a job bc the lord doesnt feel im ready...or bc i want to moe out too bad...or if i would apply where she wants me to(i did and i didnt get that job) or do what she wanted life would be grand.

She recently stopped slapping me bc i hauled off and slapped her back and told her id call the cops if she touched me once more. She once CHOKED me bc my then bf called her crazy bc she yelled at my stepdad all the way from fla back home(8 hours) bc she said he was flirting with one of the disney world dancers



. She listened in on my phone calls constantly and slapped me again once bc she had made a rude comment about one of my friends and she thought i was telling someone what my mother said about the friend. I wasnt we were talking about 21 yr old bs LOL.

Bad grades= spanking if she had asked me why she would have found out i was being teased at school by the students bc the white students didnt like me bc i was black(hillbilly arse town) and the black students didnt like me bc i was poor like them(very few middle class blk ppl in my small town). The teachers had the mindset of the students. If the teacher was white she hated all the blk kids if she was black she hated all the middle class blk students in her class(i was one of maybe about 50 all who were teachers kids).

I will add my story to the mix. I was 11 and i had just started haveing menstural cycles that yr and i was highly irregular. Well my period was TWO days late and my mother goes out and gets a pregnancy test. Now i was in 5th grade never had a bf never even kissed a boy. She made me take the test and it was suppose to turn pink if you were pregnant well it was 1.00 store version and so it wasnt pure white but a cream color. She drags me back to the store yelling at me the whole way there slapping me. She picked up another test a name brand one this time and guess what it turns out my 11 yr old never had sex self WASNT PREGNANT.

She has "apologized" for since(10 yrs after the fact) BUT she always says her excuse was she heard an 11 yr old in my grade had just given birth and she was upset.






. Her excuse for most things since ive known her have been "her hormones"her depression" ~insert eye roll~.

Ive read all of tonys articles b4 and i have emailed them to her and she just says that if you dont spank they will grow up bad. Then says "well you have a problem with the way i raised you". I live at home so i dont answer honestly ill save that for when i move out



.

It still affects me esp since being back at home. Ive found myself crying myself to sleep a lot more. As they say though karma is a bish. Lately shes had stuff happen to her. Her inlaws are crazy and try to cast spells on her. One of them comes over and knocks over her plants trying to kill them. People in our town are rude to her like they were rude to me in school(funny when i told her how rude they are in this town she acted like i was making stuff up or that I was the reason). I find myself second guessing my decisions again since being home. I have to remind myself i survived w/o her input for yrs while i was at college. Shes just a controlling.....wont say what i want.

Anywho im dont ranting and raving but i am against spanking i think there are other methods that can be used.


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## MakeupByMe (Jul 20, 2009)

Dang Girl That makes me sad just reading that Im So Sorry that you have been through that!!

And Not A disagreement or Agreement to anything but In My Observations The people who have been against beating , spankinkgs, hittings etc Hve all been hit in some form or another BUT Not only were they hit but emotianally abused Which is something completley different

For example I WAS hit growing up occasionallyhere and there BUT not for crazy or stuff my m0ther made up in her head if i talked disrespectful I got spanked etc. But My mother would always tell me later why she did it &amp; was always honest with me as well as always listened to me .........I didnt grow up shootin ppl or emotionally scarred

Now someone who got hit lets say Exactly like I was (Not too much but Occasionaly) But If that parent also didnt talk to her child and never believed her child and talked down to her child than I understand being scarred

Ppl just think Oh they were hit They were beaten Etc Thats why they are bad.............No they are bad because That parent hit thim with no communication no rules no love

JUST hitting I dont think messes up a child Hitting mixed with No love, No Talking, No explanation It can ruin anyone

I Just notice That When pple give BAD examples of Spanking What their example really ends up being is Based on MORE EMotional Abuse &amp; Neglect


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