# Most important things to you in a partner



## warmonk (Nov 15, 2011)

I know people vary in what they think is important and why but if you could only pick five things out of the following list of things, what five things do you think is most important in a partner?

list them in the order from first to last and say why you think your list is important. remember only five things are guaranteed and the rest is just what you would pick if you could.

Its suppose to say a lot about you, depending on what you pick, because there are so many important ones and obviously you want a partner, or have one that has all of them to some degree, but look at them in the sense that what you pick indicates something you feel you want more than another because you might crave it subconsciously.

A wealthy person usually doesn't care about wealth so much because they don't lack it, or have bad experience with it.

It probably doesn't mean anything but it can still be fun to try.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (example)

*1.*Appearance *-because it helps to have something pretty to look at when you argue*

*2.*Humor   - *Life is short and there is already too much seriousness in the world                    *

*3*.Wealth    - Blah, blah, blah                   

*4*.Religion                     

*5*.Fidelity/commitment/ no wandering eye

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------This is the list of 27

Fidelity/commitment

Religion

wealth

humor

appearance

Ethnicity                   

Propriety                   

Ambition/goals         

Life experience/ know how         

Affability/kind         

Self-esteem               

Adventurous/ risk taker             

Loyal /self-sacrificing/protective

Intelligence

Hygiene

Health

Sex drive /skill

Does or doesn't already have off spring

Political views

Dependability/responsible

Education

Age

Reputation

Affectionate/ romantic

No bad or crazy family and friends

Interests/ hobbies  

Past relationship history


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## Dragonfly (Nov 15, 2011)

I wouldn't know because I suck in relationships.


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## satojoko (Nov 15, 2011)

1) Honesty - which wasn't mentioned 2) Loyalty/fidelity - which ties into #1 3) Responsibility - not only to myself, but to society as well, which ties in to kindness 4) Being affectionate 5) No affiliation to any organized religion - fortunately my husband dropped the one he was born into, but I knew he would from the beginning because he is far too logical and intelligent to just go along with what has been spoon-fed to him, which ties into him being educated Lists like this are kind of pointless because so many of the things mentioned are related to each other. I got smart after my first marriage from hell, which taught me exactly what I DON'T want in a relationship. Which allowed me to see my current husband with open eyes, to really look at the kind of human being he is, when I met him. He is also very good looking, but so was the pig I was married to before. When it comes down to it, looks mean nothing if the person is rotten on the inside.


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## SarahNerd (Nov 15, 2011)

1) Sense of humor

2) Allows me my freedom

3) Honesty

4) Understanding

5) Adventurous


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## Bonnie Krupa (Nov 15, 2011)

not gonna lie appearance is number 1 at first but the things that keep me around are sense of humor honesty intelligence sweetness/kindness


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## Dragonfly (Nov 15, 2011)

When my post is edited by a mod - isn't there a message left indicating so?


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## janetgriselle (Nov 15, 2011)

I'm already married, but this is what I was looking for I guess.

1) Either shared or was accepting of my religious beliefs
2) Honest
3) Educated- At least a bachelor's degree. I'm going for my PhD, I didn't want to deal with the education gap.
4) Maturity- I refused to marry a kid. There are so many guys that stay immature, ugh.
5) Similar interests


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## Hezzie (Nov 16, 2011)

I'm married,this is my second marriage, and I learned so much from being married to a totally emotionally unavailable and emotionally abusive person. A few traits that my husband who I'm married to now, who is amazing, had and were a must for me are/were:

1) Religion/Spirituality - he accepted that it was important in my life

2) Loves to be active

3) Completely vulnerable to me (puts his heart on the line) and doesn't hold back

4)Honest

5) funny/fun, up for anything

6) Helpful, doesnt just sit on the couch all the time

I could go on and on but those are the basics.


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## warmonk (Nov 16, 2011)

people who suck at relationships usually learn a lot from the ones they had, so that the next one has qualities that they find they value more.  Its funny but I think when you are dating people you are really just learning more about yourself. lol


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## warmonk (Nov 16, 2011)

You are right,

Honesty was one of them in the original list now that I think about it.

It also had culture and nationality and domestic skills like cooking. Most of the items are very similar. I never had a problem with honesty so I never felt it was something important for me to have. the point of the list was to reflect on the person creating the perfect soul mate and indicating what signs they might have revealing past expiereance or struggles. In truth I never understood how psychology is what they say they are. kinda like dreams and what they mean. Like they know right? lol


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## warmonk (Nov 16, 2011)

> Originally Posted by *satojoko* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 1) Honesty - which wasn't mentioned
> 2) Loyalty/fidelity - which ties into #1
> ...


 
And I guess religion is a biggie with you. A lot of people seem to not care what faith a person subscribes to so long as they possess certain virtues. I find that religion tends to encompass many like minded attitudes if one truly practices it, so that if a person is of the same faith than there shouldn't be too many disagreements regarding views of morality and politics. But than again those who just preach and don't practice can really cause you to be in for a surprise.

Being affectionate is amazing and its great to have someone that reminds you how much they are into you by the way they express it. It could be the gentle way the rub your back, or the nibbles on the ear or plays with your hair. My wife likes to trace my face with her finger tip while I sleep. I feel like a lion cub lol

So for you a person who often has good looking men you don't value looks so much, but have you ever been with a guy who was not attractive to you? a person you were with because you liked who they were as a person so much that it excused the lack of beauty?


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## warmonk (Nov 16, 2011)

> Originally Posted by *Hezzie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I'm married,this is my second marriage, and I learned so much from being married to a totally emotionally unavailable and emotionally abusive person. A few traits that my husband who I'm married to now, who is amazing, had and were a must for me are/were:
> 
> ...


wow, your guy looks like what you described. Nice catch!!

One definition of Religeon, is one's belief of reality. It shapes what perspective you view the world and euips you with a foundation of morality. If He is accepting of your devotion and investment in this, I think that says a lot.

being active is without a doubt, seperates the dull life from an exciting one. Sometimes the people we are with encourage us to make memories by getting us up and out the door.

it is great to have someone who is Open. because sometimes you can be with someone and still feel alone. being open is one thats good nut not on the list, so is helpful.

humor is priceless, some people have it, others understand it, and then theres the other crowd......


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## warmonk (Nov 16, 2011)

> Originally Posted by *SarahNerd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 1) Sense of humor
> 
> ...



 Freedom, Nice

Thats the best of both worlds if you get to keep your old and combine with the new. Says a lot about your man not being a controlling person. A person who allows you freedom is secure and knows you love them and won't leave them because you find something else out there that is interesting. what is Typical of a person who is insecure is that they need you to stay locked down in order to prevent you from finding interest and fun in ways other than them.


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## warmonk (Nov 16, 2011)

> Originally Posted by *Bonnie Krupa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> not gonna lie appearance is number 1 at first but the things that keep me around are sense of humor honesty intelligence sweetness/kindness



 well this is a makeup site, I would imagine people who have interest in make up are concerned about beauty. Appearance is great so long as you think its great. Its fun how beauty is not universal though. you have some things all people agree is more attractive on a base scale but ones particular preference vary greatly.

humor, honesty intelligence, sweetness kindness.......wow that does sound like a great guy.

Its funny no one here mentioned wealth


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## warmonk (Nov 16, 2011)

> Originally Posted by *janetgriselle* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I'm already married, but this is what I was looking for I guess.
> 
> ...


PHD wow!

I bet you would never be a dull conversation.

Maturity is a great virtue, but I wouldn't want to be so serious all the time. sometimes its fun to play young. I do the work and worry, protect and provide gig at the home but I love when my wife gets into the kung fu tickle matches with me. I win most of the time but she's getting better lol


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## warmonk (Nov 16, 2011)

People kept adding to the list so I added more and tried to define the use of the term to encompass more meaning. eh, like mentioned before its probably pointless but, It was interesting to see so much variation in what people value and was kinda fun for me to try and sacrifice somethings for others.

so here ya go

*[SIZE=14pt]  Appearance   =overall attractiveness, they look good to you and others  [/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt] Humor = they are funny and they think you are funny [/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt]    Wealth = good credit, property, house, cars, boat, cash  [/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt]Religion= secular or theistic, same or accepting  [/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt]  Fidelity= their commitment, no cheating no flirting, no wandering eye [/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt] Ethnicity= same as you or different, white, black, yellow, brown, red [/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt]Propriety=  polite manners, not burping farting, swearing, [/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt]                      scratching, peeing, passing out on floor from drinking  [/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt]  Ambition/goals = wanting marriage, travel, family, career, success, save world [/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt]Life experience=   travelled, performed, different careers, past life [/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt]Affability=             kind, , caring, sensitive, communicates, understanding         [/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt] Self-esteem=       independent, secure, allows freedom for partner[/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt] Adventurous/=     risk taker, spontaneous, alive, willing, daring, fun[/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt]Loyal =             self-sacrificing of time and resource, protective, defends you.[/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt]Intelligence=      smart, quick witted, perceptive, sensible, comprehensive,     logical [/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt]Hygiene=            clean, nails, great breath, clean clothes, bathes multiple times a day,           great  smelling body, hair, trimmed, polished, from head to toe always[/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt]Honesty= never lie, not secretive, open, direct.[/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt]Health=   works out constantly, very fit, no smoking, drinking, drugs, junk food, stds, missing    organs or body parts.[/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt]Sex drive /skill=  similar to what you want, more or less. Willing and wanting to do whatever you want.[/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt]off spring=         Does or doesn't already have kids[/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt]Political views=     same political views as you, same knowledge or interest[/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt]Dependability=     responsible, helpful, punctual, keeps secrets, trust worthy, keeps promises, makes good on deals[/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt]Education=     how far they went, more than ged [/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt]Age=      not 20 or 30 years older[/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt]Reputation =       always hearing gossip and rumors about their past or conduct.[/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt]Affectionate=        romantic, touching caressing, holding hands, flirting, playing.[/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt]Sane friends and family=        No bad or crazy family and friends[/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt]Interests/ hobbies=      fishing, art, cooking, sports, reading, music[/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt]Past relationship history=      divorced 7 times, 1000 ex partners or 0 [/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt]Culture=        small town, big city, east coast, country bible bet, west coast,[/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt] Nationality. What country they are from, France, china, Africa, India USA[/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt]Domestic skills, cooking, cleaning[/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=14pt]Physical endowments= size matters sort of thing, less for appearance more for feel.[/SIZE]*


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## satojoko (Nov 16, 2011)

Yes, I have had short &amp; long term relationships with men who are not good looking at all. At least not in my eyes. But their honesty, kindness, loyalty, etc were more important. The pig I was with was considered very good looking by 99% of women I met, but that turned me off him for a long time. Being that he was from a very different culture and was used to getting his way using his looks, the fact that I wasn't interested in him made him pursue me even more, using manipulation when he discovered what I was really looking for in a guy. He spent many many months playing his game because I was a 'challenge' to him. His words. Unfortunately for me, his personality did a 360 after we were married and I was stuck with him being viewed as his 'property' in his country. Took a long struggle to get a divorce before he wound up killing me. My current husband I got to know over the Internet during months of chatting, emailing and phone calls before I ever saw him, so when we met his looks were not even an issue. He was still the same person I got to know online, and to this day - nearly 8 years after we first met - treats me as the most important person in his life. He has often said he has dedicated his life to me first, and it's not just empty words. He really does, and always has, in every possible way. And yes, organized religion is an absolute no-go zone for me. I won't even consider being with somebody who participates in organized religion. I refuse to get near it after seeing and experiencing the harm it does first hand. Spirituality is 100% different than religion, and both my husband and I are spiritual. Although he often calls himself an atheist just to make religious people nuts  Yes, I love his sense of humor, AND his ability to make people squirm while having philosophical/theoretical discussions with them as well LOL


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## Hezzie (Nov 16, 2011)

I agree. I would hate to be serious all the time. My hubby is a big kid but he knows when to be serious. And he is very responsible and takes care of me. I couldn't imagine him being serious all the time, he would hate me and we wouldnt be together lol
 



> Originally Posted by *warmonk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> wow, your guy looks like what you described. Nice catch!!
> 
> ...








> Originally Posted by *warmonk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> PHD wow!
> 
> ...


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## Hezzie (Nov 16, 2011)

I had a similar experience, my first husband totally changed after we got married. Like literally I woke up with a stranger. I too met my 2nd husband on the internet. Neither of us was looking so there was no relationship pressure and we chatted for 9 months b4 we even met. I got to know him better in those 9 months than I knew my 1st husband in 10 years. That has a lot to do with my hubby being very open and honest with me about who he is and not being afraid to show me how he feels.
 



> Originally Posted by *satojoko* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Yes, I have had short &amp; long term relationships with men who are not good looking at all. At least not in my eyes. But their honesty, kindness, loyalty, etc were more important. The pig I was with was considered very good looking by 99% of women I met, but that turned me off him for a long time. Being that he was from a very different culture and was used to getting his way using his looks, the fact that I wasn't interested in him made him pursue me even more, using manipulation when he discovered what I was really looking for in a guy. He spent many many months playing his game because I was a 'challenge' to him. His words. Unfortunately for me, his personality did a 360 after we were married and I was stuck with him being viewed as his 'property' in his country. Took a long struggle to get a divorce before he wound up killing me. My current husband I got to know over the Internet during months of chatting, emailing and phone calls before I ever saw him, so when we met his looks were not even an issue. He was still the same person I got to know online, and to this day - nearly 8 years after we first met - treats me as the most important person in his life. He has often said he has dedicated his life to me first, and it's not just empty words. He really does, and always has, in every possible way.
> And yes, organized religion is an absolute no-go zone for me. I won't even consider being with somebody who participates in organized religion. I refuse to get near it after seeing and experiencing the harm it does first hand. Spirituality is 100% different than religion, and both my husband and I are spiritual. Although he often calls himself an atheist just to make religious people nuts  Yes, I love his sense of humor, AND his ability to make people squirm while having philosophical/theoretical discussions with them as well LOL


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## Bonnie Krupa (Nov 16, 2011)

> Originally Posted by *warmonk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...



wealth has NEVER mattered to me 1 way or the other.  I actually tend to go for the less wealthy lol.


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## Hezzie (Nov 16, 2011)

Wealth doesn't matter to me but security does. A man needs to have a steady job. I have worked 2 and 3 jobs at a time to support myself. I'm not gonna let a guy sit around, no way. Unless he's laid off or like when my husband first came here from England and he couldn't work (for legal reasons) but yah, no slackers allowed lol


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## warmonk (Nov 20, 2011)

I know the term of organized religion is used very frequently but what does it mean exactly? what is the difference between that and spirituality? what is spiritual? because I am often described as spiritual by people but also religious by others.

I see culture as the embodiment of so many things. How one might view their relationship might stem from their cultural up bringing because they were raised by a mother and father who had particular roles. when they grow up they might expect these same traditions when they are pursuing a relationship. when two cultures meet it becomes very interesting if it meshes or resists. some cultures treat women like cattle which is horrific to begin with.



> Originally Posted by *satojoko* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Yes, I have had short &amp; long term relationships with men who are not good looking at all. At least not in my eyes. But their honesty, kindness, loyalty, etc were more important. The pig I was with was considered very good looking by 99% of women I met, but that turned me off him for a long time. Being that he was from a very different culture and was used to getting his way using his looks, the fact that I wasn't interested in him made him pursue me even more, using manipulation when he discovered what I was really looking for in a guy. He spent many many months playing his game because I was a 'challenge' to him. His words. Unfortunately for me, his personality did a 360 after we were married and I was stuck with him being viewed as his 'property' in his country. Took a long struggle to get a divorce before he wound up killing me. My current husband I got to know over the Internet during months of chatting, emailing and phone calls before I ever saw him, so when we met his looks were not even an issue. He was still the same person I got to know online, and to this day - nearly 8 years after we first met - treats me as the most important person in his life. He has often said he has dedicated his life to me first, and it's not just empty words. He really does, and always has, in every possible way.
> And yes, organized religion is an absolute no-go zone for me. I won't even consider being with somebody who participates in organized religion. I refuse to get near it after seeing and experiencing the harm it does first hand. Spirituality is 100% different than religion, and both my husband and I are spiritual. Although he often calls himself an atheist just to make religious people nuts  Yes, I love his sense of humor, AND his ability to make people squirm while having philosophical/theoretical discussions with them as well LOL


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## satojoko (Nov 20, 2011)

The difference between organized religion &amp; spirituality? The simplest way to put it is this: anybody who is living their life thinking that anybody is going to be tortured for all eternity or murdered by a vengeful 'god' is not in living their life spiritually. Anybody who lives their own life in fear of their 'god' or not being one of their 'god's' CHOSEN is not living their life in a spiritual manner. Anybody who believes that 'non-believers' - be they just people who do not believe in their particular religion or actual 'atheists' - is not living their life in a spiritual manner. Those who insist that human beings cannot possibly be 'moral' without following religious rules don't even come close to understanding what it is Those who portray any 'god' as a violent, homophobic, sexist, racist pig have done and continue to do 'god' a great disservice. They have wrongly associated human imperfections and so-called 'sinful behavior' with 'god'. That - along with countless other negative examples - is what you get from organized religion. I haven't yet run across any religion that doesn't fit the bill. Those who do their best - not just say it's their best - to live their lives ethically, kindly, with respect for all other living beings, who are open and accepting of all the positive around them and who also do their best to learn from the negative, who recognize life lessons - now or in the future - when they come to them, and who do not live their lives in fear of some man-made fairly tale ogre in the sky, who do not condemn others to a fiery hell or so-called 'armageddon', who do not condemn others as sinners/heretics/apostates/whatever negative term you choose - are far more likely to be spiritual than those who believe in and live by an imaginary vengeful psychopath's rules and live their lives by those rules, hating, being fearful, miserly with what they have - be it material, emotional or spiritual - condemning and killing. Those who truly know that they don't have it all figured out but are truly doing their best to understand life's lessons with the heart and brain they have, are even more likely to be spiritual. And those who realize that hatred/homophobia/violence/racism/sexism/etc are wrong in all circumstances, that we all have the same feelings as human beings and are all somebody's mother/father/brother/sister/etc - and do their very best to live their lives accordingly - have even more going for them in the realm of spirituality. None of us, myself included, will ever truly understand even the concept of 'god' in our lifetimes. None of us will even know if their truly is a 'god', especially as ge has been made out to be by ignorant, arrogant, greedy human beings. And very few, if any of us, will ever get to the point that we live our lives based on true spirituality every day of our existence. I'm not interested in arguing/slinging insults/condemnations with anybody about this, thanks. A question was asked, I answered. Somebody telling me I need to be 'saved' or some other such rubbish makes me smile, quite frankly These are just some of the many smaller but important things I've learned in my own life up til now. And I've got far more to learn. One lifetime isn't nearly enough. I may even change my views on some things in the future, which has happened before, which is not something religion generally allows for. But that's ok, because I am free of the fear of god, and the hatred I was once taught to have towards those who didn't believe in the god I myself cowered to. One thing I am absolutely sure of, however, is that religious propaganda teaches nobody anything of value. All of the religions I have personally experienced and researched have shown me that they are ALL excluding, spiteful, teach violence, fear and hatred, and very dangerous. Millions upon millions of people have suffered greatly and been murdered in 'god's' name, whichever you choose. Jesus, Allah, Yaweh, ad naseum. Pick a god, any god. I want nothing to do with any of them, and am 100% sure that 'god', if he/she/it exists, does not want us to live as religions teach us. Whether or not anybody agrees with me is meaningless. What's important is that I'm not bringing up another generation of blind, deaf and mute children who will perpetuate the same garbage and that I live my life as ethically, intelligently and with as much love as possible.


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## warmonk (Nov 21, 2011)

yes I too have always found that arguing about such these are pointless.

Belief is in my opinion involuntary. when you go to court you don't choose if you believe the guy is innocent or guilty, You already believe one way or the other or not sure and you merely let everyone else know what it is you believe. You can't choose to believe fire will not burn you, you can say what you want but your belief is conditioned by the evidence presented and how.

Ultimately I think I would fall under the category of spiritual since I don't simply agree with any one group without investing my own discernment on each issue regardless of current practiced dogma. individual thinking is the reason we have individual brains.


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## Tirin (Nov 21, 2011)

*1. Affable* - Very important, my boyfriend is also my best friend, and I wouldn't want it any other way.

*2. Affectionate *- A girl's gotta feel loved! I love how my boyfriend always holds my hand when we're out for a walk.. and how he always comes home from work smiling and wanting to hug and kiss. I also love how he always tells me he needs to tell me something "importat", just to say "you're beautiful". 

*3. Loyal* - I want someone who'll always be there for me, no matter what. You can always trust loyal people.  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

*4. Funny* - I'm never bored with my boyfriend, and I don't want to be! He always makes me laugh, and when I'm not laughing, I'm smiling instead.

*5. Adventurous* - I love to travel and try new things, therefore I need someone who does too, so we can explore new places and cultures together  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## satojoko (Nov 22, 2011)

For me, I think we do have a choice in what we believe. For those who follow organized religion, those people do make choices as to whether or not they properly investigate what that religion is truly about, where/how/when/why it originated, if the religion has been responsible for the mass slaughter of specific groups - based on race/religion/country of origin/etc and so on. People make a choice to either blindly follow or to reason for themselves. I was brought up with all sorts of twisted BS related to the belief that demons were everywhere, was told there were demons in me, that if I was a 'disobedient child' 'god' would kill me when 'armageddon' came around, BS &gt; BS &gt; and more BS. Even as a child I knew this was wrong, but I didn't have a choice as to who I was growing up with or the resources or knowledge to investigate if any of this garbage was true or not. As a result, I grew up as a terrified little kid, being told every little unexplained noise was 'the demons' and 'satan' coming because either 1) I was being 'disobedient' or 2) to 'test our faith'. What a crock of dog feces. However, when I became an adult, I made a conscious choice and put a great deal of effort into investigating the hell out of various different religions, including the one I was brainwashed in as a child. What I found was so shocking, but so absolutely freeing, it was incredible. It was difficult psychologically, though, so I chose to put myself through counseling and never looked back. I know I made the right decision. My husband is another example. He was born Muslim, in a predominantly Muslim country, and taught that those leaving Islam should be slaughtered for that 'unforgivable' sin. He, like I, chose to investigate whether what he had been spoon fed from birth was true or not. He spent many years researching the laws of islam, their origin, the history of the religion, the theology, the different translations of the quran, and other assorted facts about it. He was fully prepared to follow Islam to the letter if he found that 'allah' really was the one true god islamists claim he is and that muhammad truly was a prophet. Instead, he found that Muhammad was a mentally ill, murderous pedophile, that there was documented proof that he was highly prone to hallucinations, that he often claimed that 'allah' commanded him to slaughter various groups of people when it was financially and politically convenient for him to do so and that he could not in good conscience follow such a twisted, abusive cult. We both know many people all over the world who have also made the choice to investigate the cults/religions they were brought up in and subsequently left. Some have been murdered for doing so. So I DO believe people make the choice as to what they believe, most definitely. Claiming ignorance is not a defense at this point in history when information is so readily available. My husband had to do his investigating in a developing country where censorship is still rampant, literature on the origins of Islam are near to impossible to get, where books/documentaries/movies/art are regularly banned if they don't support Islam, where fatwas are declared on people, a place where parents have murdered their own children for breaking away from it, and where religious fanatics will hack people to death in the street with machetes or burn them alive in their houses for leaving Islam. It was by no means easy for him, and he did go through a period of depression and confusion, but he did it, got himself into counseling for PTSD etc, and made it through. He is far happier now than he ever was, helping others break free themselves. Once people are adults, there really are no more excuses for blindly following anything, whether it's religion or anything else. Is it difficult to break away from these abusive groups? Absolutely. It can be such a massive stress on some people psychologically that they commit suicide. The fear that religion breeds in people and the extent of brainwashing that goes on is truly scary. People sometimes wind up 'breaking' mentally, emotionally. But more people make it through than don't, thankfully, and go on to live much happier, more fulfilling lives, free of fear. Anyhoooo....glad to hear you feel you lean towards spirituality rather than religion  The more people in the world who are truly spiritual, the better.


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## warmonk (Nov 22, 2011)

I agree with you on so many things. i think we are both history buffs and I alsl think being spiritual is great and better than subcribing to something you do not even undertstad fully.   but "spiritually" like the teaching of Christ,  is only a matter of time before people will claim to be spiritual and go around killing people in its name and ruin it for everyone who practices it the right way. lol
 



> Originally Posted by *satojoko* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> For me, I think we do have a choice in what we believe. For those who follow organized religion, those people do make choices as to whether or not they properly investigate what that religion is truly about, where/how/when/why it originated, if the religion has been responsible for the mass slaughter of specific groups - based on race/religion/country of origin/etc and so on. People make a choice to either blindly follow or to reason for themselves. I was brought up with all sorts of twisted BS related to the belief that demons were everywhere, was told there were demons in me, that if I was a 'disobedient child' 'god' would kill me when 'armageddon' came around, BS &gt; BS &gt; and more BS. Even as a child I knew this was wrong, but I didn't have a choice as to who I was growing up with or the resources or knowledge to investigate if any of this garbage was true or not. As a result, I grew up as a terrified little kid, being told every little unexplained noise was 'the demons' and 'satan' coming because either 1) I was being 'disobedient' or 2) to 'test our faith'. What a crock of dog feces. However, when I became an adult, I made a conscious choice and put a great deal of effort into investigating the hell out of various different religions, including the one I was brainwashed in as a child. What I found was so shocking, but so absolutely freeing, it was incredible. It was difficult psychologically, though, so I chose to put myself through counseling and never looked back. I know I made the right decision. My husband is another example. He was born Muslim, in a predominantly Muslim country, and taught that those leaving Islam should be slaughtered for that 'unforgivable' sin. He, like I, chose to investigate whether what he had been spoon fed from birth was true or not. He spent many years researching the laws of islam, their origin, the history of the religion, the theology, the different translations of the quran, and other assorted facts about it. He was fully prepared to follow Islam to the letter if he found that 'allah' really was the one true god islamists claim he is and that muhammad truly was a prophet. Instead, he found that Muhammad was a mentally ill, murderous pedophile, that there was documented proof that he was highly prone to hallucinations, that he often claimed that 'allah' commanded him to slaughter various groups of people when it was financially and politically convenient for him to do so and that he could not in good conscience follow such a twisted, abusive cult. We both know many people all over the world who have also made the choice to investigate the cults/religions they were brought up in and subsequently left. Some have been murdered for doing so. So I DO believe people make the choice as to what they believe, most definitely. Claiming ignorance is not a defense at this point in history when information is so readily available. My husband had to do his investigating in a developing country where censorship is still rampant, literature on the origins of Islam are near to impossible to get, where books/documentaries/movies/art are regularly banned if they don't support Islam, where fatwas are declared on people, a place where parents have murdered their own children for breaking away from it, and where religious fanatics will hack people to death in the street with machetes or burn them alive in their houses for leaving Islam. It was by no means easy for him, and he did go through a period of depression and confusion, but he did it, got himself into counseling for PTSD etc, and made it through. He is far happier now than he ever was, helping others break free themselves. Once people are adults, there really are no more excuses for blindly following anything, whether it's religion or anything else. Is it difficult to break away from these abusive groups? Absolutely. It can be such a massive stress on some people psychologically that they commit suicide. The fear that religion breeds in people and the extent of brainwashing that goes on is truly scary. People sometimes wind up 'breaking' mentally, emotionally. But more people make it through than don't, thankfully, and go on to live much happier, more fulfilling lives, free of fear.
> Anyhoooo....glad to hear you feel you lean towards spirituality rather than religion  The more people in the world who are truly spiritual, the better.


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## warmonk (Nov 22, 2011)

Wow,

If I was a woman I think I would be in love lol

I like your virtues, I think you also must be a wonderful person because you really have great values. reading your post made me feel better inside.
 



> Originally Posted by *Tirin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> *1. Affable* - Very important, my boyfriend is also my best friend, and I wouldn't want it any other way.
> 
> ...


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## satojoko (Nov 22, 2011)

There is no way to practice religion the 'right' way because it's so inherently twisted. Even the histories of religions have been twisted all through time to suit whichever religious leaders were predominant or wished to be predominant at the time. It's always been a game of power. If there ever were any true 'holy books', they were destroyed very long ago by those who have been responsible for translating them, twisting them to their own selfish desires and greed as a means to control society the way THEY saw fit. And THAT always changes. All religions my husband and I have delved into in detail have been guilty of this. How is following jesus any more valid or 'right' than following 'allah'? A Xtian would say jesus is the sure bet. An Islamist would say allah is who everybody should put their faith in. There is no link between religion and spirituality whatsoever. Religion is a crutch and not a personal experience. Religion is dictated. True spirituality is freeing and not based on 'jesus' or 'allah' or anybody/anything else. Spirituality is something you discover, their is wisdom in spirituality. Not arrogance. Spirituality cannot be dictated. I have NEVER heard the name of any god/so-called 'prophet'/etc come out of the mouth of a truly spiritual person because THEY KNOW what spirituality IS. Spirituality is very personal and unique to each human being. Part of my spirituality is recognizing that everything on this earth has an 'energy'. Disrupt or destroy that energy and you disrupt natural balance, then problems arise. Part of my spirituality is also reading cards, which uses energy. Part of my husband's spirituality is regular meditation, as well as focusing energy to heal others, and he knows that he is not actually doing the healing himself. He is just a channel for the healing energy. Helping other people leave destructive religions is also part of spirituality for both of us. Taking the time to learn homeless people's stories, to treat them as valuable human beings that haven't been forgotten about, is also very important to our spirituality, as is trying to help with what we can. For others it may be working with people who have HIV - also an interest of mine - or with sick, lonely animals. Or abused children. Or for the environment. Many people don't even realize that these things are part of their spirituality, sadly. Religion and blind faith in whichever blood-thirsty entity one chooses to follow is NOT spirituality and never has been. It can only lead to eventual disaster. If looking at history, past and what has happened up to the present, this is very clear. The second I hear somebody who claims they are 'spiritual' start spouting off rubbish about any god, I know that they are simply twisting religion to their own misguided ends, as anybody who is involved in religion inevitably does. That is how we justify all the shitty things we do to ourselves and others. When I hear anybody start talking about one god or the other, I end up walking the other way. It's impossible to teach anybody who is religious to be spiritual. Can you teach a drug addict how NOT to be a drug addict? No. They have to realize where things went wrong for them, why they feel the need to have that crutch in their life, where their life is lacking, what they can do to turn things around for themselves, and how to move past it and into a new life, free of that crutch. Many fail over and over before they can throw the crutch away. Some end up dying in the process. Some live but continue to destroy their lives and make those around them miserable. Very much like trying to get somebody to kick the drug of religion. Spirituality is something people come to realize and learn for themselves through life experiences, meditations, contemplations, investigation, being honest with oneself, etc. The last step for me being 100% sure that everything associated with religion is rubbish, other than to give us solid examples of how NOT to live our lives, is when I died. My heart stopped, but I was brought back. And nothing happened while I was flatlining. No lights, no tunnels, no angels floating on clouds with harps in unisex robes, no god waiting to run all my 'sins' past me before he cast judgement on me. Jesus/allah/yaweh/jehovah were conspicuously absent, not surprisingly. And that pretty much ended the fear of death for me, which we all have. Death was unconsciousness on this level of existence, and peace. No more worries. No hell fires, no pitchforks, nothing. I'm very thankful that I'm married to somebody who 'gets' these things, and did so long before I met him without any prodding from me. Every person has to discover and truly understand these things for themselves. Since we first met nearly 8 years ago we have been able to have some absolutely amazing discussions about these topics, 100% open and honest with no hostility or hurt feelings, sharing our own bits of research &amp; discoveries with each other, and even laughing about it all when we see - for example - the links between Islam and the Nazi beliefs that Hitler perpetuated in his attempt to wipe out an entire race and those he belie Ed were inferior and of no value to society. Or how - for example - the Catholic Church went about wiping out its opponents by slaughtering people in cold blood. Purely based on greed and politics. Nothing 'godly' about that at all. Or how much blood and gore there is in the bible, that a 'god of love', human beings' supposed 'father' is one day going to murder billions of his own 'children' for being sinful little sods. Pure dog poo. There are countless examples. We can laugh at the incredulity of it all, the absolute absurdity, utter stupidity and complete lack of logic or reason, but it's actually no laughing matter that billions of people have died and continue to die because of people's twisted need to say 'I'M RIGHT! YOU'RE WRONG! YOU DESERVE TO DIE! GOD WILL PUNISH YOU!' Bla bla bla. Been going on since forever, and it always will as long as people are blindly following religion, needing their crutch/fix. Religion/allah/jesus/yaweh is heroin for the masses. And we've got nobody to blame but our own greedy, arrogant, self centered selves. Nothing to be proud of as a species, really. Anyways, you're free to believe in whatever you want to, be it fairies, little green men, or jesus. That's your right. This was so not part of the original discussion and I had no intention of getting into a side topic, but as with most discussions, related topics do come up. Good luck to you


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## Tirin (Nov 24, 2011)

> Originally Posted by *warmonk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Wow,
> ...


Haha thank you!!  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> But I must say it's not easy having these values.. I'm somewhat of a hopeless romantic, lol, want things to be like a fairy tale sometimes! It's also very hard to find a guy to match my idea of a perfect man and relationship, so when I finally found him, I moved all the way to Denmark to be with him.. ^^

Maybe that was kind of "stupid" since I said no to one of the best universities in Sweden (especially the education i was supposed to start, it had a 100% job guarantÃ©e after you graduated), but I chose love over school... and I didn't even know that about myself before it happened!  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## 13Bluestar97 (Nov 29, 2011)

Um, for me...

1. Appearance (yeah, kinda selfish in some ways but imma not gonna lie)

2. Personality

3. Humor

4. Loyalty

5. Smarts (or at least decent brains - I would never date anybody who is dumber than me by more than two letter grades)


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## evvyness (Aug 27, 2012)

I would have to say Loyal /self-sacrificing/protective, humor, education, Affectionate/ romantic, and dependability/responsible.


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## kerialewis (May 24, 2013)

affecinate/romantic- cuddling,long late night conversation,holding hand,kissing,gentle touch etc...

intelligence-beimg able to learn things easily,smart

sense of humour-he must have that bc i love to laugh, and making jokes...

life experience- past experinnce that way the would be more mature an able to deal with life issues

fedelity /commitment- i hate being cheat on ,i like guys who are commited and faithful


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