# Secret Santa 2014 input wanted



## zadidoll (Feb 9, 2014)

Granted we're just at the beginning of 2014 and we still have... about eight months before I open up Secret Santa for sign ups but I want your input now.

One of the things that was brought up by the mods to me was that one of the requirements for the 2014 sign ups should be that when it comes time to shipping that a tracking # is to become a requirement and the tracking # must be sent to me or to a "Santa Elf" to confirm that the package was sent withing the two week time frame. In the past it has not been but due to several packages not being sent out until after the December 16 ship date and one not being sent out until JANUARY.

Another requirement is that when you do send the package that on the exterior shipping box you write down your username here on MUT or write from your Secret Santa. This is due to some members sending their real name but forgot to include their username so their giftee had no idea who it was from other than the person's real name but weren't comfortable posting that person's name.

Suggestions? Comments? Questions?


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## Animezing (Feb 9, 2014)

I think it would be nice for the Santee to acknowledge (in a timely manner) that their gift arrived safely, either through a PM or on the reveal thread. This way the Santa has confirmation that the package sent, was not stolen or lost in transit. I know for me personally, it was a relief that both my Santee's (nails &amp; regular)Â were quick about letting me know that their packages arrived safe and sound.  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## ttanner2005 (Feb 11, 2014)

I think all these suggestions are great.  I was one that had a santee not post for a while in 2012 about receiving the gift and it made me nervous that it got stolen or lost.  Then my 2013 Santa didn't include her username, and she beat all my family and friends in the best gift.  I wanted to shout her name with glee, but didn't feel comfortable doing so.


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## Elizabeth Mac (Feb 11, 2014)

I'm on board for all of the suggestions! [1) Tracking # sent to Zadi or a Santa Elf, 2) including my username on the package, and 3) letting it be known that my own gift arrived safe and sound.]


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## wrkreads (Feb 11, 2014)

Quote: Originally Posted by *Elizabeth Mac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  I'm on board for all of the suggestions! [1) Tracking # sent to Zadi or a Santa Elf, 2) including my username on the package, and 3) letting it be known that my own gift arrived safe and sound.]

I think all of these are great suggestions.


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## Spiritwind10 (Feb 11, 2014)

Hi all, I realize I am newer here and couldn't participate this last year because of the dates, I think I had enough posts, because I open my mouth to much with my fingers!! : ). Anyway, I would like to participate this year and if you need any kind of help or what ever I would be glad to do. So, that's why I got on here early to let you know. Just PM me ifmyoumwould like me to participate.


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## zadidoll (Feb 11, 2014)

Quote: Originally Posted by *Spiritwind10* /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Hi all, I realize I am newer here and couldn't participate this last year because of the dates, I think I had enough posts, because I open my mouth to much with my fingers!! : ). Anyway, I would like to participate this year and if you need any kind of help or what ever I would be glad to do. So, that's why I got on here early to let you know. Just PM me ifmyoumwould like me to participate.

Once it get close to opening sign ups I'll be sending a mass pm reminding people.  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> I know I have women chomping at the bit for this year's Secret Santa and we're MONTHS away!

What I wish we did was a Secret Cupid but that's obviously too late! Maybe a Secret Easter Bunny?


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## lovepink (Feb 11, 2014)

Quote: Originally Posted by *zadidoll* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  
Once it get close to opening sign ups I'll be sending a mass pm reminding people.  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> I know I have women chomping at the bit for this year's Secret Santa and we're MONTHS away!

What I wish we did was a Secret Cupid but that's obviously too late! Maybe a Secret Easter Bunny?
@allistra44 in the Secret Santa thread suggested a Christmas in July theme, so Easter or July would work!


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## Spiritwind10 (Feb 11, 2014)

I think Christmas in July sounds good! That puts at least 5 months before Christmas! I would be glad to help with this if anyone wants to do it. I have not done one, but I have Been an event planner in the past and I realize this is all on the computer and such and communication, but I do have a lot of time on my hands right now and would love to help! If someone would lead I'd make a good second. Or if someone would tell me how it's done I would do it. What do you all think?


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## Spiritwind10 (Feb 11, 2014)

> @allistra44 Â in the Secret Santa thread suggested a Christmas in July theme, so Easter or July would work!


 Jenn, I would love to help with this what do you think about Christmas In July?


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## tacehtpuekam (Feb 12, 2014)

Quote: Originally Posted by *Animezing* /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I think it would be nice for the Santee to acknowledge (in a timely manner) that their gift arrived safely, either through a PM or on the reveal thread. This way the Santa has confirmation that the package sent, was not stolen or lost in transit.

I know for me personally, it was a relief that both my Santee's (nails &amp; regular) were quick about letting me know that their packages arrived safe and sound.





Yep, agree with this! My Santee was nice enough to post right away, but I felt so bad for all the people wondering if their gifts were received!

Also...and I don't really know how to say this without sounding too Scrooge-y and unwelcoming but...I was thinking maybe the requirements for joining could be slightly tweaked? I think last year you had to join by October &amp; make 50 posts, which is reasonable in itself but I saw some new people to the site just posting like crazy for a few days to get to 50 and then not really posting anything.  Again, I got lucky with my Santee &amp; she had tons of posts + a wish list, but I can't even imagine how hard it would be to shop for someone who basically just joined the site to participate in Secret Santa. Half the fun is stalking your santee via the site! 

I'd be in for Christmas in July or Easter or whatever, too. And will definitely help organize! 

Really, I just miss the Secret Santa thread &amp; want it to be active sooner than November. 



 

ETA: I don't mean to imply that newer members shouldn't be able to participate! After all, we were all new once.


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## zadidoll (Feb 12, 2014)

I get what you're saying about the 50 posts minimum. Another one could be that they have to be a member of MUT for at least three months before sign ups (which will again be in November) which means.... A July 1 deadline.


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## tacehtpuekam (Feb 12, 2014)

Quote: Originally Posted by *zadidoll* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  I get what you're saying about the 50 posts minimum. Another one could be that they have to be a member of MUT for at least three months before sign ups (which will again be in November) which means.... A July 1 deadline.
Yeah, that would work too! 



 It seems early, but I don't think 3 months is too unreasonable.


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## dressupthedog (Feb 12, 2014)

If sign ups begin November 1 again, it might help if there is a one week sign up time and then three weeks to shop before the shipping time period begins in December. With all the postal delays around the holidays, I had a couple of things that I ordered for my santee literally take weeks to arrive. I ended up having to ship at the very end of the two week shipping period in December, and then my package that I sent with 2 day priority shipping took over a week to arrive in my santee's town. It was really frustrating, and an extra week to shop in November might help out.


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## kawaiiwoofs (Feb 12, 2014)

> I get what you're saying about the 50 posts minimum. Another one could be that they have to be a member of MUT for at least three months before sign ups (which will again be in November) which means.... A July 1 deadline.


 I like this idea! Stalking was fun and I was lucky to have a Santee who posted often. I like the wishlist/do not want list as well but I thought the most helpful thing was the "survey" we came up with. It was nice to find out my persons favorite colors, snacks, allergies, etc. since that helped me personalize the box a little better than just making it all Christmasy I'm totally down for another Secret Santa party  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## meaganola (Feb 12, 2014)

I would like to throw out a vote for Flash Secret Virtual Spring Break! Say, one week to sign up and two or three weeks to shop/ship. Is there any way MUT rules would allow forumites to run their own mini mystery swaps (most likely with more limited signups, like a certain number of people, and maybe themed or with rules like four items consisting of two VDay/one anti-VDay/one wild card, which comes to mind because it's a swap I'm doing right now) like this? It's allowed on another forum I'm on (and I'm currently panicking because I'm overdue to send my BDay stuff out because I haven't even been able to shop SO MUCH SNOW AND ICE), so it made me wonder if we could do that here. As for SeSa this year, another thing to consider about the timeframe is the fact that we have another abbreviated shopping season between Thanksgiving and Christmas. It's a whole day longer than last year, but that's still a tight turnaround if we get our swappees at around the same time as last year.


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## LadyK (Feb 12, 2014)

I like the suggestions so far.  Tracking and including a username seem like good ideas.  I also like @usofjessamerica 's idea about making a survey to fill out and post.  That was very helpful when shopping for my santee.


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## tacehtpuekam (Feb 13, 2014)

Would it be too much to make the wishlist/survey a requirement? Like, maybe you have to have a wishlist posted before you can sign up? 

Also agree with @bellatrix42 on the shorter sign up period so we have more time to shop. So many places take longer to ship around the holidays &amp; it's kind of nerve-racking not knowing if your packages are going to arrive on time or not. I'd rather just start shopping as early as possible!


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## meaganola (Feb 13, 2014)

> Would it be too much to make the wishlist/survey a requirement? Like, maybe you have to have a wishlist posted before you can sign up?Â  Also agree with @bellatrix42 Â on the shorter sign up period so we have more time to shop. So many places take longer to ship around the holidays &amp; it's kind of nerve-racking not knowing if your packages are going to arrive on time or not. I'd rather just start shopping as early as possible!Â   /emoticons/[email protected]g 2x" width="20" height="20" />


 One thing I don't think people realize can be a serious problem on the wishlist front is keeping it vague. Some people might think it's more helpful because it leaves options wide open, but some of us (okay, me) go into meltdown mode when we don't have specifics to guide us. We overthink everything like whoa, and then we're paralyzed.. To pull an example from elsewhere, "I like tea" is a problem for us. "I prefer herbal tea, and I really like licorice root. I would love to try the Aveda tea with it!" is easier to deal with. Or "I like sweets" is bad, but "I like sweets, but I don't eat dairy or gelatin, and I love fruity stuff" narrows things down (*way* down).


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## gemstone (Feb 13, 2014)

Quote: Originally Posted by *meaganola* /img/forum/go_quote.gif


One thing I don't think people realize can be a serious problem on the wishlist front is keeping it vague. Some people might think it's more helpful because it leaves options wide open, but some of us (okay, me) go into meltdown mode when we don't have specifics to guide us. We overthink everything like whoa, and then we're paralyzed.. To pull an example from elsewhere, "I like tea" is a problem for us. "I prefer herbal tea, and I really like licorice root. I would love to try the Aveda tea with it!" is easier to deal with. Or "I like sweets" is bad, but "I like sweets, but I don't eat dairy or gelatin, and I love fruity stuff" narrows things down (*way* down).
If I remember correctly, I think this last year the wish list was done away with because in previous years people were disappointed that they didn't get exactly what was on their list.  It's hard to find a balance, I guess


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## elizabethrose (Feb 13, 2014)

Quote: Originally Posted by *bellatrix42* /img/forum/go_quote.gif

If sign ups begin November 1 again, it might help if there is a one week sign up time and then three weeks to shop before the shipping time period begins in December. With all the postal delays around the holidays, I had a couple of things that I ordered for my santee literally take weeks to arrive. I ended up having to ship at the very end of the two week shipping period in December, and then my package that I sent with 2 day priority shipping took over a week to arrive in my santee's town. It was really frustrating, and an extra week to shop in November might help out.

THIS.  I ordered something for my Santee right after she posted about it (not a thing on her list but the way she talked about it!) and since it had to come from the UK it took aaaages!  I had everything else ready to go and was shipping out Christmas Eve!  Of course, she didn't mind- and I used an elf, but I felt so bad!


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## elizabethrose (Feb 13, 2014)

Quote: Originally Posted by *gemstone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  If I remember correctly, I think this last year the wish list was done away with because in previous years people were disappointed that they didn't get exactly what was on their list.  It's hard to find a balance, I guess

That's true- I dunno, for me, it sounds silly to sign up for a secret swap if you are going to be upset that you didn't get exactly what you wanted.  If you want a very specific product, buy it yourself?  Part of what I love is getting something I wouldn't have bought myself and seeing what people come up with!

Going on with the tea thing- it feels constructive to be like "I love tea, but I prefer black over green!" or something like that- still specific enough, but not "I want the Harney and Sons Hot Cinnamon Spice"!


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## LadyK (Feb 13, 2014)

So maybe a wishlist with some specifics but also a message saying that the wishlist is a guide for your santa, not a required shopping list.


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## Elizabeth Mac (Feb 13, 2014)

Quote: Originally Posted by *LadyK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  So maybe a wishlist with some specifics but also a message saying that the wishlist is a guide for your santa, not a required shopping list.  

I agree with this!


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## kawaiimeows (Feb 13, 2014)

totally agree with upping the amount of time that one is required to be a member - i guess it just irks me when people join and post a bunch in a short amount of time just to get in on the fun.


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## kawaiiwoofs (Feb 13, 2014)

> totally agree with upping the amount of time that one is required to be a member - i guess it just irks me when people join and post a bunch in a short amount of time just to get in on the fun.


 I agree! We did meet some nice ladies and some did stick around on MUT. I would imagine it would be hard to get someone who has been on MUT for a very short period of time where all their posts are "I agree!" Or "nice box!" And that's it. Re: wishlist -- I liked when people would say what the actually wanted because it served as a good departure point into thinking about *other* things they may like.


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## kawaiimeows (Feb 13, 2014)

Quote: Originally Posted by *usofjessamerica* /img/forum/go_quote.gif


I agree! We did meet some nice ladies and some did stick around on MUT. I would imagine it would be hard to get someone who has been on MUT for a very short period of time where all their posts are "I agree!" Or "nice box!" And that's it.

Re: wishlist -- I liked when people would say what the actually wanted because it served as a good departure point into thinking about *other* things they may like.
I tried to do a  happy medium with the wishlist - I don't know if my Secret Santa liked it - but I was both specific and vague, I listed some specific polishes I had been eyeing and then also a general description of brands i've never tried, that I like glitters,etc. I think that helps cater to both the non-stressed shoppers, and the shoppers who like a little more security/certainty.


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## SOSRedAlertSOS (Feb 13, 2014)

I know this sounds like it would be more work for you @zadidoll but is there anyway that next year we could tier the spending limits? I know that a lot of us(including myself) spent WAY over the budget amount and I think that made people a little uncomfortable when they stayed close to the budget amount. Have people pick and include in their sign up the spending amount that they are willing to go to and then match them up with others in that tier.


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## zadidoll (Feb 13, 2014)

Quote: Originally Posted by *KellyKaye* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  I know this sounds like it would be more work for you @zadidoll but is there anyway that next year we could tier the spending limits? I know that a lot of us(including myself) spent WAY over the budget amount and I think that made people a little uncomfortable when they stayed close to the budget amount. Have people pick and include in their sign up the spending amount that they are willing to go to and then match them up with others in that tier.

It would require a lot of work since this year we had 107 participants since I typically randomize members with each other. HOWEVER I would consider this but I want to see what the thoughts are of people on this. Possibly another way is to do it similar to the nails Secret Santa vs main Secret Santa and have two different "main" Secret Santas - one for those who don't mind spending more than $25 and one for those on a budget.


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## kawaiimeows (Feb 13, 2014)

I personally don't mind it the way it is. I definitely went over on budget, but my SS deserved it and I wanted to give her something nice to look forward to since she had been going through a tough time. No idea how much my SS spent on me, I didn't sit there and calculate it in my head, I just enjoyed it.

Also, the actual value of my SS's gift vs how much I actually spent is way different, I had birchbox points, coupons, gift cards, etc. I'm sure a lot of us do that too so I think that's something to take in to account before confining people in to tiers.


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## SOSRedAlertSOS (Feb 13, 2014)

Quote: Originally Posted by *kawaiimeows* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  I personally don't mind it the way it is. I definitely went over on budget, but my SS deserved it and I wanted to give her something nice to look forward to since she had been going through a tough time. No idea how much my SS spent on me, I didn't sit there and calculate it in my head, I just enjoyed it.

Also, the actual value of my SS's gift vs how much I actually spent is way different, I had birchbox points, coupons, gift cards, etc. I'm sure a lot of us do that too so I think that's something to take in to account before confining people in to tiers.
I agree with you on this because the fact that someone went through all of the hard work to make me a present is priceless. It seemed a few girls mentioned how they were feeling bad because they had stuck close to the budget though and I don't want anyone to feel that their gifts were unworthy.


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## meaganola (Feb 13, 2014)

> I personally don't mind it the way it is. I definitely went over on budget, but my SS deserved it and I wanted to give her something nice to look forward to since she had been going through a tough time. No idea how much my SS spent on me, I didn't sit there and calculate it in my head, I just enjoyed it. *Also, the actual value of my SS's gift vs how much I actually spent is way different, I had birchbox points, coupons, gift cards, etc. I'm sure a lot of us do that too so I think that's something to take in to account before confining people in to tiers.*


 There was a lot of trading and raiding of stashes as well! I thought it was fair game to send, say, an Urban Decay liner or Butter London polish and not count it against the limit if you got it via trade for stuff you would never use anyway or if it was something you received in a box that had just been taking up space in your swap stash.


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## kawaiiwoofs (Feb 13, 2014)

> There was a lot of trading and raiding of stashes as well! I thought it was fair game to send, say, an Urban Decay liner or Butter London polish and not count it against the limit if you got it via trade for stuff you would never use anyway or if it was something you received in a box that had just been taking up space in your swap stash.


 My Santa absolutely SPOILED me. I took it the same route as Meaganola -- I used the BLITZ promo, pulled things from my stash ... All that. If I could do it over again, I would use my $20 off $50 VIB coupon and buy my Santee even more stuff and technically only be $5 off from the $25 limit. Or... I could be extra naughty if that glitch is still in place for the 3rd year in a row that makes those $15/$20 coupons essentially just gift cards Lol sorry. Main point -- I don't think a tiered system is necessary. As long as you play your cards right, you can do a lot on a budget. I know not everyone is willing to part with their BB points or use their $15 freebie sephora gift card, but it's an option. And hey, we all went into this knowing there *is* a limit and I would think it was unfortunate if someone felt bad that their gift was "only worth $25" when so and so got $xxx worth of stuff. The main point is that someone took the time to creep and shop just for you!


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## elizabethrose (Feb 13, 2014)

Quote: Originally Posted by *meaganola* /img/forum/go_quote.gif


There was a lot of trading and raiding of stashes as well! I thought it was fair game to send, say, an Urban Decay liner or Butter London polish and not count it against the limit if you got it via trade for stuff you would never use anyway or if it was something you received in a box that had just been taking up space in your swap stash.

Agreed!  I went over budget on my Santee but not massively- I used a lot of what I had in my stash (and thankfully my Santee has the same affinity for office supplies that I do- I didn't spend a dime there even though she said she loved journals and things to write in.. hoarder alert), traded for some, worked hard to find the best deals on things- and bought a few full price splurge material items.  I think maybe if we even include a rule that doesn't enact say, a spending limit- but more of a spending minimum.  If you say that your minimum spent on items to include in the present has to equal $25 (and I know we use the honor code), but can exceed the $25 minimum, that would be good!  Maybe also to include a line that mentions that no one should expect a box that has over $25 spent on it- would ease minds?

I like that we're talking about this!  I was fairly active before all of SS started this year but I know that I made so many friends out of it (I count you all as my friends.  Fyi.) and love to be able to come home and read through everyone's posts.  Not gonna lie- I still like to stalk some of you just to see how everyone's doing.  I really liked the group participation effort part of it, I guess is what I'm saying.  I love to see people be a part of something- getting the gifts seemed like the icing on the cake (editing in here: I love/loved my SS gift.  I was spoiled rotten.. so so rotten.. I don't want to downplay my Santa at all, because she was awesome and I hope I get her again next year!).  I loved all of us gossiping about what we bought and how we were going to wrap it.. etc.  I feel like adding months onto the front end of when you have to be a part wouldn't be bad, because the community benefits from participation.  (to add to this, I know I haven't been super active recently- so many things going on on the homefront.  Life can settle down now, so that I can hang out with you girls more often.)

Okay.  Wall of text over.


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## SOSRedAlertSOS (Feb 13, 2014)

> Agreed! Â I went over budget on my Santee but not massively- I used a lot of what I had in my stash (and thankfully my Santee has the same affinity for office supplies that I do- I didn't spend a dime there even though she said she loved journals and things to write in.. hoarder alert), traded for some, worked hard to find the best deals on things- and bought a few full price splurge material items. Â I think maybe if we even include a rule that doesn't enact say, a spending limit- but more of a spending minimum. Â If you say that your minimum spent on items to include in the present has to equal $25 (and I know we use the honor code), but can exceed the $25 minimum, that would be good! Â Maybe also to include a line that mentions that no one should expect a box that has over $25 spent on it- would ease minds? I like that we're talking about this! Â I was fairly active before all of SS started this year but I know that I made so many friends out of it (I count you all as my friends. Â Fyi.) and love to be able to come home and read through everyone's posts. Â Not gonna lie- I still like to stalk some of you just to see how everyone's doing. Â I really liked the group participation effort part of it, I guess is what I'm saying. Â I love to see people be a part of something- getting the gifts seemed like the icing on the cake (editing in here: I love/loved my SS gift. Â I was spoiled rotten.. so so rotten.. I don't want to downplay my Santa at all, because she was awesome and I hope I get her again next year!). Â I loved all of us gossiping about what we bought and how we were going to wrap it.. etc. Â I feel like adding months onto the front end of when you have to be a part wouldn't be bad, because the community benefits from participation. Â (to add to this, I know I haven't been super active recently- so many things going on on the homefront. Â Life can settle down now, so that I can hang out with you girls more often.) Okay. Â Wall of text over.


 What you said about easing minds, that was the point I'm trying to make. Maybe a tiered system wouldn't be great but mentioning the minimum and that people aren't expected to go any higher would help ease weary minds.


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## tweakabell (Feb 13, 2014)

Part of the reason I want a tiered system is for the girls who didn't have a lot of wiggle room who felt bad and for me because then I could participate in more than one. I wanted to buy something for everyone, but that's not realistic. The nail SS doesn't appeal to me though.


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## LadyK (Feb 14, 2014)

I liked the SS without tiers.  I went over budget but I was happy with it.  I think I could even get more with less money if there was more time to shop.


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## chelsealady (Feb 15, 2014)

I don't like the idea of tiers. As long as the minimum is met, people will be happy. I think everything went well last year.


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## trekkersangel (Feb 15, 2014)

I agree with everyone on here too! I never expected anything over the $25. Heck I didn't even care if I got anything in the first place! I was having so much fun compiling my gift to my Santee that I forgot about the gift in return. I think most of us are just happy to be participating. Tiers would break up the magic of it all. I made so many friends on this thread that it would be sad not including everyone because if money. Nobody should feel bad so long as everybody knows the rules &amp; is truly there for the magic &amp; excitement of it all. Oh man I've missed you ladies!


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## angienharry (Feb 15, 2014)

I am against the tiers also. I think a big part of the fun was all being on the SS thread talking a million times a day. We would end up dividing the group just because some people are on more of a budget. I want us all to be together ðŸ˜Š


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## meaganola (Feb 15, 2014)

The more I think about it, the more opposed to the tier system I am.  My favorite parts of this, in ascending order:


Watching everyone else open their stuff!
The slumber party-ness of the discussion thread!
Figuring out how to get the biggest bang for my buck!

And that last one was *really* where I had fun.  I did pay attention to the spending limit because (and this is something else that would be a reason to *not* do the tiers) I had an international Santee.  I fudged greatly on the customs form about the *value* (that is, what I would have spent if I had bought everything at full price.  There were two items in particular that would have put it over the limit value-wise, but one was received in a swap, and the other was a duplicate item received in a subscription box, so I paid nothing for either item) of things, but I *did* stay fairly close to the spending limit due to swaps, things I just *had*, and sales.  Just the customs limit will force a lot of people into the lower tier whether they want to be there or not.  Someone mentioned being interested in the tiers because then they could have been able to have two Santees, and I can see that as being very appealing, but I would be more interested in being able to have two Santees at the lower limit.
 

I can also see a breakdown in the slumber party feel of things if we break things into two different dollar limits.  I know I would feel weird if I went with one tier and kept seeing people talk about the other tier, regardless of which tier I was in.  It just seems like it could easily devolve into unfortunate cliqueishness without anyone even trying to make that happen.  After all, look at how separate the nail and regular SeSa threads were.  No one was prevented from posting in the regular SeSa thread, but there was almost no crossover unless someone happened to be in both groups.

(And a side note, in case anyone was wondering why I use "SeSa" instead of "SS":  I just don't feel comfortable with using those initials for *anything*.  It's just a habit I got into way back in high school in the '80s, and I just can't shake it.  Or think of anything else when I see it being used.)


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## angienharry (Feb 15, 2014)

> The more I think about it, the more opposed to the tier system I am.Â  My favorite parts of this, in ascending order:
> Watching everyone else open their stuff!
> The slumber party-ness of the discussion thread!
> Figuring out how to get the biggest bang for my buck!
> And that last one was *really* where I had fun.Â  I did pay attention to the spending limit because (and this is something else that would be a reason to *not* do the tiers) I had an international Santee.Â  I fudged greatly on the customs form about the *value* (that is, what I would have spent if I had bought everything at full price.Â  There were two items in particular that would have put it over the limit value-wise, but one was received in a swap, and the other was a duplicate item received in a subscription box, so I paid nothing for either item) of things, but I *did* stay fairly close to the spending limit due to swaps, things I just *had*, and sales.Â  Just the customs limit will force a lot of people into the lower tier whether they want to be there or not.Â  Someone mentioned being interested in the tiers because then they could have been able to have two Santees, and I can see that as being very appealing, but I would be more interested in being able to have two Santees at the lower limit. Â  I can also see a breakdown in the slumber party feel of things if we break things into two different dollar limits.Â  I know I would feel weird if I went with one tier and kept seeing people talk about the other tier, regardless of which tier I was in.Â  It just seems like it could easily devolve into unfortunate cliqueishness without anyone even trying to make that happen.Â  After all, look at how separate the nail and regular SeSa threads were.Â  No one was prevented from posting in the regular SeSa thread, but there was almost no crossover unless someone happened to be in both groups. (And a side note, in case anyone was wondering why I use "SeSa" instead of "SS":Â  I just don't feel comfortable with using those initials for *anything*.Â  It's just a habit I got into way back in high school in the '80s, and I just can't shake it.Â  Or think of anything else when I see it being used.)


 Ok. I'm clearly a dork but I have to ask- what other meaning does SS have?


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## lovepink (Feb 15, 2014)

Quote: Originally Posted by *angienharry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif


Ok. I'm clearly a dork but I have to ask- what other meaning does SS have?
If you click the highlighted text (pinkish red) in @meaganola's post it takes you to the link on Wikipedia about it!


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## angienharry (Feb 15, 2014)

> If you click the highlighted text (pinkish red) in @meaganola's post it takes you to the link on Wikipedia about it!Â


 Got it. Thanks!


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## lovepink (Feb 15, 2014)

Quote: Originally Posted by *angienharry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif


Got it. Thanks!
No problem!  I appreciate you being the one to ask, cause I didn't want to!  Then I went back and looked and saw it was clicky text so I was able to get in a little history lesson!  I had no clue!


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## meaganola (Feb 15, 2014)

Yeah, I feel *really* weird about saying, "Hey, that's a Nazi thing," but it's all I can think of when I see those initials.  I honestly thought it was common knowledge, though.


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## lioness90 (Feb 15, 2014)

Quote: Originally Posted by *meaganola* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  Yeah, I feel *really* weird about saying, "Hey, that's a Nazi thing," but it's all I can think of when I see those initials.  I honestly thought it was common knowledge, though.
I had no idea. I learn something new everyday on MuT.

I agree that there should be some sort of survey/questionnaire/wishlist thing required and that it should be completed by a specific date. At the same time, people shouldn't have the expectation that they are going to get EXACTLY what is on their list. The list/questionnaire/whatever is just a guideline.


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## gemstone (Feb 15, 2014)

Quote: Originally Posted by *meaganola* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  Yeah, I feel *really* weird about saying, "Hey, that's a Nazi thing," but it's all I can think of when I see those initials.  I honestly thought it was common knowledge, though.
I knew but because there are so many other non-offensive, extremely common uses I never thought of us using it as offensive.  (secret service, social security, steamship, steamboat, submarine)


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## kawaiiwoofs (Feb 15, 2014)

> I knew but because there are so many other non-offensive, extremely common uses I never thought of us using it as offensive. Â (secret service, social security,Â steamship, steamboat, submarine)


 Same!


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## NotTheMama (Feb 16, 2014)

I participated in the Nails SS only, and I basically agree with most of what's already been said. I stalked sales, used a few things from my own stash and trades to bulk up her gift. I went over the limit but not by a whole lot and I didn't care. I don't like the idea of a tier system, I think the limit system works fine. I had no expectation of getting anything worth more than the limit and as long as everyone knows that, I think it's fine. For the most part, at least on the nails side, most people were having fun shopping &amp; putting their gifts together. That being said, I do hope we have another nails one this year. I am not a make-up person as much as a nail polish person, so that was great fun!!


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## JC327 (Feb 16, 2014)

Quote: Originally Posted by *elizabethrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  Quote: Originally Posted by *meaganola* /img/forum/go_quote.gif


There was a lot of trading and raiding of stashes as well! I thought it was fair game to send, say, an Urban Decay liner or Butter London polish and not count it against the limit if you got it via trade for stuff you would never use anyway or if it was something you received in a box that had just been taking up space in your swap stash.

Agreed!  I went over budget on my Santee but not massively- I used a lot of what I had in my stash (and thankfully my Santee has the same affinity for office supplies that I do- I didn't spend a dime there even though she said she loved journals and things to write in.. hoarder alert), traded for some, worked hard to find the best deals on things- and bought a few full price splurge material items.  I think maybe if we even include a rule that doesn't enact say, a spending limit- but more of a spending minimum.  If you say that your minimum spent on items to include in the present has to equal $25 (and I know we use the honor code), but can exceed the $25 minimum, that would be good!  Maybe also to include a line that mentions that no one should expect a box that has over $25 spent on it- would ease minds?

I like that we're talking about this!  I was fairly active before all of SS started this year but I know that I made so many friends out of it (I count you all as my friends.  Fyi.) and love to be able to come home and read through everyone's posts.  Not gonna lie- I still like to stalk some of you just to see how everyone's doing.  I really liked the group participation effort part of it, I guess is what I'm saying.  I love to see people be a part of something- getting the gifts seemed like the icing on the cake (editing in here: I love/loved my SS gift.  I was spoiled rotten.. so so rotten.. I don't want to downplay my Santa at all, because she was awesome and I hope I get her again next year!).  I loved all of us gossiping about what we bought and how we were going to wrap it.. etc.  I feel like adding months onto the front end of when you have to be a part wouldn't be bad, because the community benefits from participation.  (to add to this, I know I haven't been super active recently- so many things going on on the homefront.  Life can settle down now, so that I can hang out with you girls more often.)

Okay.  Wall of text over.

All l of this ^^^ I loved being a part of this and I enjoyed the threads so much. I had an amazing SS it would be awesome if she was my SS again. Also I had tons of fun shopping for my santee.


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## JC327 (Feb 16, 2014)

Quote: Originally Posted by *LadyK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  I liked the SS without tiers.  I went over budget but I was happy with it.  I think I could even get more with less money if there was more time to shop. 




 I went over budget but I didn't mind, it felt nice to spoil someone.


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## JC327 (Feb 16, 2014)

Quote: Originally Posted by *trekkersangel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I agree with everyone on here too! I never expected anything over the $25. Heck I didn't even care if I got anything in the first place! I was having so much fun compiling my gift to my Santee that I forgot about the gift in return. I think most of us are just happy to be participating. Tiers would break up the magic of it all. I made so many friends on this thread that it would be sad not including everyone because if money. Nobody should feel bad so long as everybody knows the rules &amp; is truly there for the magic &amp; excitement of it all.

Oh man I've missed you ladies!


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## dancersmum (Feb 17, 2014)

hey there....I'm fairly new to MUT but this is something I would love to do!  There are some AMAZING people on this site who have such generous spirits and are so willing to share information etc...that I actually feel that I've started to make friends.  The thing is - I currently don't live in the USA (though I do have a US shipping address) - and in order for the receiver to get the gift in a timely manner if its at xmas - everything has to leave here by Dec 2!!  Any chance that international secret santas could have a head start on shopping by learning who they get asap?  Preferably in early November - so we can ahem...research (stalk) and learn what would make great gifts.

I suppose I could get around the date issue if I had to buy sending things directly from a online store and then making a more personal package from here...so that whoever is waiting for my gift at least has something to open in a timely manner...


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## zadidoll (Feb 17, 2014)

Quote: Originally Posted by *dancersmum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  hey there....I'm fairly new to MUT but this is something I would love to do!  There are some AMAZING people on this site who have such generous spirits and are so willing to share information etc...that I actually feel that I've started to make friends.  The thing is - I currently don't live in the USA (though I do have a US shipping address) - and in order for the receiver to get the gift in a timely manner if its at xmas - everything has to leave here by Dec 2!!  Any chance that international secret santas could have a head start on shopping by learning who they get asap?  Preferably in early November - so we can ahem...research (stalk) and learn what would make great gifts.

I suppose I could get around the date issue if I had to buy sending things directly from a online store and then making a more personal package from here...so that whoever is waiting for my gift at least has something to open in a timely manner...

I think this year I will reinforce that if they have someone who is international to please make sure it's sent within a timely manner (I'll have to wait for the USPS site to update their calender for those dates).


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## dancersmum (Feb 17, 2014)

Quote: Originally Posted by *zadidoll* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  
I think this year I will reinforce that if they have someone who is international to please make sure it's sent within a timely manner (I'll have to wait for the USPS site to update their calender for those dates).
I actually have a USA shipping address...so it won't be a problem for someone who gets me - however for me to forward packages onwards this year - I still had a deadline of Dec 13 - and that was using DHL.  But to be totally honest - the reason I want to join in is the giving.  While I'm sure the receiving is lovely - for me - the idea of making someone happy is what appeals in this arrangement.  Plus I have a Jan birthday so if I get something late it will be like an extra bday pressie which is always lovely!    I just wish I could participate in Xmas in july lol but I totally understand that you have to keep it small and more for the regulars!

I just want to be sure that anyone I am buying for will get their surprises by xmas!


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## puppymomofthree (Feb 21, 2014)

I have to agree that I like it best when we are all together. This group is so great! I would miss you guys if we were split. I would rather do it twice a year than tiered. I do love increased use of tracking elves--that would make it less stressful, and I had such fun doing it for others!


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## meaganola (Feb 21, 2014)

> I have to agree that I like it best when we are all together. This group is so great! I would miss you guys if we were split. I would rather do it twice a year than tiered. * I do love increased use of tracking elves--that would make it less stressful, and I had such fun doing it for others*!


 I'm thinking we need a separate thread for the elves so we don't have constant need-an-elf/I'll-be-an-elf posts. Elfing is fun, but it would be easier to keep track of the elves if it was consolidated in one thread.


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## puppymomofthree (Feb 21, 2014)

> I'm thinking we need a separate thread for the elves so we don't have constant need-an-elf/I'll-be-an-elf posts. Elfing is fun, but it would be easier to keep track of the elves if it was consolidated in one thread.


 Fantastic point!


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## Lolo22 (Feb 21, 2014)

Just chiming in to say that Iike the idea of the increased member time, required wishlist or possibly a minimum # of posts per week (even 1 or 2) during the Santa period.  I got a great Santee who posted but I felt bad for others who got someone that never posted.  I don't really think the tiers are neccesary.


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## elfbarbie07 (Feb 21, 2014)

I agree that maybe no tiers, but I think say a $25 minimum, and then those who pick from their stash or want to spend more can do so. I definitely think a wishlist/survey would be good. I would like to participate this year and I will need ideas without having to literally stalk them (though I don't mind doing a little stalking  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />).


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## meaganola (Feb 22, 2014)

Could we maybe brainstorm questions now so the survey can be kind of carved in stone up front?  It was really hard to chase down all of the questions to answer, and a lot of people didn't post answers, but I've done similar swaps where we had a list of specific questions to answer that went with our signup information, and it really helped out.  And I mean beyond favorite brands/colors/products/sub boxes, since it would be more fun to send, say, a nail polish/nail wraps/eye shadow/magnet/cupcake sprinkles/coffee mug/etc. based on someone's favorite tv show/movie, but we would to *know* that someone is a Whovian/Browncoat/etc. so we could order the proper stuff from whatever company.  (Why, yes, I'm shifting into hardcore fandom mode right now.  Why do you ask?)


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## Last Contrast (Feb 23, 2014)

That's a good idea. I didn't really want to put in a really prescriptive list as I was international and had no idea what country my Santee might be from (and if I got a Aussie person then no chance could we afford anything from MAC/Urban Decay/Lime Crime/Sugarpill! as it tends to be 2x-3x as expensive here). I find it a bit easier to answer a what would you rather than formalating my own somehow. I also missed a lot of questions here and there as the thread moved verrrrry quickly at times and was hard to keep up with it.

Also I'm kind of anti-tiers in the sense that I always think of things like secret santa as very open .... sort of sending good karma out into the internet. Tiers make it seem more transactional.


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## tweakabell (Feb 23, 2014)

I'm not sure how to make it any clearer that the tiers have nothing to do with wanting to receive more expensive things. I'm not sure how having a $50 SS is any different than having a Nails Santa.

There were women who felt bad that the gifts they sent out were not worthy even though they followed the rules and did what was expected of them. You can tell them not to feel bad all you want but that's not going to stop them from feeling bad about what they sent. I know because while I spent at least $65 on my gift I still saw that Naked 3 palette and went "Well, the gift I sent is crap". I'm a rule follower and found the $25 limit stressful, even though I ended up ignoring it. I did not have any sort of "stash" to hunt through last year, not everyone does.

Off the tier thing because it's irking me and I don't know why (probably just too early in the morning and no sleep yet). If I participate again this year I hope we can get our Santees sooner, my money would have gone farther with some of the sales and not feeling like I had to order everything in 2 weeks to ensure it got to my house in time to pack it.

I do think everyone needs a survey or wishlist because the thread was moving so fast, I couldn't keep up with all the questions being asked at once and gave up trying to answer them all. We also had people who didn't seem to have wishlists/much info. So just a standard survey for everyone to fill out would be nice, all the better due before the names are assigned so you aren't waiting for your person to answer them after it's already in shopping time.

I loved the separate Elf thread idea because the day I ended up needing one, the list was at least 7 pages back and didn't have everyone on it, I ended up just messaging someone I thought was an elf and confirming.

I think that's all my rambling except Thank You to Zadi for all the work you did last year. You made organizing it look easy lol


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## JC327 (Feb 25, 2014)

Quote: Originally Posted by *meaganola* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  Could we maybe brainstorm questions now so the survey can be kind of carved in stone up front?  It was really hard to chase down all of the questions to answer, and a lot of people didn't post answers, but I've done similar swaps where we had a list of specific questions to answer that went with our signup information, and it really helped out.  And I mean beyond favorite brands/colors/products/sub boxes, since it would be more fun to send, say, a nail polish/nail wraps/eye shadow/magnet/cupcake sprinkles/coffee mug/etc. based on someone's favorite tv show/movie, but we would to *know* that someone is a Whovian/Browncoat/etc. so we could order the proper stuff from whatever company.  (Why, yes, I'm shifting into hardcore fandom mode right now.  Why do you ask?)
That's a great idea!


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## Jac13 (Mar 10, 2014)

Hi Everyone!!! I had to disappear for a bit due to demanding schedule. I love the Secret Santa nail and makeup. I do think it would be great for the person to quickly acknowledge and the tier group sounds great. I think many ladies like a higher end gift. I spent over the limit on both and could have spent more but stopped myself. I was fortune to have awesome Santas. I hate to say this but a couple- not many- gifts looked like they were under the limit and although the person may say oh I will accept whatever. We all want to receive a gift we love. That's part of the fun. I love the idea of an Easter bunny theme since I love Easter. Other than that... I am looking forward to this year exchanges.


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## roxymama (Apr 10, 2014)

Subbing because I'd love to do Secret Santa this year and this will keep me in the loop of how it all works. Yay shopping and making people happy!


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## DeSha (Apr 11, 2014)

I agree with many of the suggestions offered so far. Specifically, I am not a fan of the tier giving. The dollar minimum seems like a perfect resolution.


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## tulosai (Apr 26, 2014)

I am late to the party but I've thought about it A LOT and am also against the idea of tiers. It seems kind of against the spirit of the whole thing to me, and as others have said it makes it hard to account for people who shop their stash, use points, etc. Say someone uses their birchbox points worth $20, free sephora $15 and has some new items in their stash worth $20. They also spend $25 on other stuff. This person spent $25 but their gift is worth $80.  How do you account for that?

I also think it would be sad to split people based on money. I think for almost all of us it's more fun to give than to receive anyway on this.


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## SOSRedAlertSOS (Apr 26, 2014)

The tier thing isn't to divide people depending on their worth, it was simply and idea because last year, I can remember in particular a few members feeling really bad that the gifts they sent were exactly $25 worth of makeup or whatnot. My suggestion on the tiers was only said because some people felt really insecure about what they had bought their SS after seeing some of the reveals that were obviously way over the $25 limit.

I am not trying to take away the fun, it was just a suggestion and I am sorry so many people thought that I was trying to make it about money. When in all honesty, I was trying to make it about people feeling comfortable rather then feel shame. Because it's the thought that counts and nobody should feel ashamed of what they purchased their SS.


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## Dashery (May 1, 2014)

Hmmm. I don't if this is a good idea or not, but maybe it's a compromise to the whole tier thing. We don't want to restrict how much a santa can spoil their santee, but no santa wants to feel like her gift was sub-par.

Maybe any santas who don't have a stash to pull from or are worried the gift they receive will be "too lavish" in a sense, can just make a quick note in their wishlist or something. You know. Just something asking their Santa not to go _too_ overboard or get crazy lavish. The santa could always ignore it of course, but at least the thought is then out there. And it kind of fits with the wishlist. After all, one of your wishes may be for your Santa to not "spoil you" too much.

I don't know. Just a thought, I guess.   /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## sstich79 (May 3, 2014)

Chiming in because I'm curious... seeing all the midsummer fairy talk made me want to play, so I guess I need to stay tuned and figure out how things work for this year's Secret Santa!


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## Kristine Walker (May 5, 2014)

I'm against spending tiers. I think the $25 minimum worked fine last year.


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## onelilspark (May 15, 2014)

I'm fairly new, but I love the idea of a Secret Santa!  I'm excited!!


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## jennm149 (May 15, 2014)

I have to say, I think that KellyKaye and Tweakabell have a point. 

I wouldn't want anyone to feel that they couldn't participate in the fun because they see some of the more generous gifts people gave last year, and know they don't have the resources to reciprocate. 

What if, instead of "tiers" -- and people publicly declaring themselves in them -- there two options: one with a spending "range" (say, a minimum of $X and a maximum of $2X) and one with a minimum but no maximum.  Everyone would choose an option in the email they send with their address and everyone would be matched to someone who selects the same option, behind the scenes by whoever is assigning the Santas.  No one would ever have to know who picked what, people who want to be able to spend with abandon can continue to do so and no one has to feel that their gift isn't enough.  And we can all "oooh" and "aaah" over everything.  As KellyKaye said, it's not about the money -- it's about making sure that no one feels that they didn't do enough when they've done all that they can.

And -- as a corollary -- for folks in the "range" group, any "free" money (e.g., BB points) should count toward the maximum.  I'm guilty of having stocked up on points, gift cards I've been given, etc., preparing for the Midsummer gifting, and I realized today that I could spend an insane amount of money without spending a penny out of pocket.  Somehow, should that be considered, especially for people who don't have stashes to raid, stuff to trade, points at Ulta, etc?  IDK, but again, I'd hate to see people sitting out because they feel they can't do as much as others.


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## tacehtpuekam (May 15, 2014)

Honestly, I think worrying about the spending limits is kind of pointless. Mainly because...there is no way to really know how much someone actually spent.

Like, for this round I already have an entire Popsugar box full of stuff just from my own personal stash of samples and things I bought but never used. And then I just placed a Birchbox order with all points. So I have a decent amount of stuff already and haven't actually spent a dime. Some people are probably going to look at that and think I went way over budget, but I didn't.  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />  

I know there were people last year feeling uncomfortable with their gifts, thinking they weren't going to be good enough (me included). But did we see how happy everyone was with their gifts?! I don't think I saw a single reveal post last year that wasn't one of us raving/gushing about the great &amp; incredibly thoughtful gifts we got. I've never received a more wonderful gift in my life and never stopped for a second to think about how much it cost. 

Cliche but it really is the thought that counts. 

I think the bottom line is that people should spend what they're comfortable spending and no one should ever expect a gift worth more than $25. 

ETA: for the record, I'm not trying to tell people 'Don't feel insecure!' Believe me, I know that's not always possible!


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## tacehtpuekam (May 15, 2014)

zadidoll said:


> I get what you're saying about the 50 posts minimum. Another one could be that they have to be a member of MUT for at least three months before sign ups (which will again be in November) which means.... A July 1 deadline.





bellatrix42 said:


> If sign ups begin November 1 again, it might help if there is a one week sign up time and then three weeks to shop before the shipping time period begins in December. With all the postal delays around the holidays, I had a couple of things that I ordered for my santee literally take weeks to arrive. I ended up having to ship at the very end of the two week shipping period in December, and then my package that I sent with 2 day priority shipping took over a week to arrive in my santee's town. It was really frustrating, and an extra week to shop in November might help out.


In other news, have either of these items been re-addressed in regards to the timeline?


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## NotTheMama (May 17, 2014)

allistra44 said:


> Honestly, I think worrying about the spending limits is kind of pointless. Mainly because...there is no way to really know how much someone actually spent.
> 
> Like, for this round I already have an entire Popsugar box full of stuff just from my own personal stash of samples and things I bought but never used. And then I just placed a Birchbox order with all points. So I have a decent amount of stuff already and haven't actually spent a dime. Some people are probably going to look at that and think I went way over budget, but I didn't.  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />
> 
> ...


This. 

I don't think we will ever stop the "uncomfortable" feeling of "is my gift enough?" simply because we all *care. * I, as I'm sure everyone else as well, wanted my Santee to feel like this was the best gift ever and that I put everything together with her in mind.  Will she like this polish?  This color?  This candy?  This wrapping paper?  I had a blast and I did go over the limit, but I also got some great deals, shopped from my stash, and didn't care one bit about the extra money I spent, I just wanted her to love everything.

I loved everything that I got, and like someone said, I didn't see anybody that didn't rave about their gift, whether it was closer to the limit or obviously over the limit.  If we pick this apart and make tons of rules and limits and groups, it won't be as much fun.  I understand that this wasn't intended to be about the money, but about the feelings of inadequacy, but even with tiers, or groups, I think we will still have those feelings. 

I just hope that we continue the Nails Secret Santa for this year...I only participated in that one and we had an amazing group of ladies and it was SO much fun.  I loved every minute of it, so I wish to keep that part.   /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## meaganola (May 17, 2014)

Pollysmom said:


> I just hope that we continue the Nails Secret Santa for this year...I only participated in that one and we had an amazing group of ladies and it was SO much fun.  I loved every minute of it, so I wish to keep that part.   /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


I already stated my opinion on the other part of this post (short version: totally agree.  I honestly *hope* my Santa only spent the limit even though I know the value of what was sent was far over it!), but I wanted to chime in on this part.  Yes yes yes!  It's not so much that I want a *separate* Nails Secret Santa.  It's more that I want another one *in addition to* Original.  It could be exclusively eyeliner, bath products, tea, cat toys, or office supplies for all I care (just not hot sauce or gardening supplies  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> ).  

Really, this is what it boils down to:  I just want a reason to go buy things for people.  I already have my brother's Christmas present (Kickstarter + comic cons = you get your shopping done at weird times), and everyone else but my dad gets the same things year after year (but figuring out what to get Dad is a doozy), so I look to forums to give me my fun shopping-for-other-people experiences.  If I could sign up for multiple slots on the original Secret Santa, I would, but since it's one per person, I'll just go with hoping for two separate ones.


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## zadidoll (May 17, 2014)

Secret Santa Nails 2014 will most likely make a return.


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## DonnaD (May 17, 2014)

Opinions!  I got some.

I don't think tiers are necessary.  IMO, if you are the type to be disappointed in a gift, then you need to not participate.  To me, that is just so incredibly wrong and ungrateful.  What happened to the thought counting?  I saw lots of people give less stuff but put more thought into the wrap, presentation, cards, etc.  Sour grapes is so unbecoming.  I also sent gifts to many other people on the thread and on MUT in general because it was fun for me so I pretty much stuck to my budget for my real SS.  I do know that if I had an SS that participated, I probably would have went way over...but that's my choice, dont you think?

There was a little questionnaire in the nail polish swap that I thought worked really well for our group.  I can see where that type of thing would be harder for the regular group as makeup and hair products are common gifts.  I have no good suggestion for how to go about that.

I am all in for requiring so many posts/length of time on the board to participate.  I also agree with a rule that any participant let someone know they received/sent their gift.  I, personally, don't want a repeat of having to repeatedly pm my giftee to ask if she got it.  I think I may have even had to ask one of the elves for help in that.  I forget.

I know I will once again sign up for SS Nails because oh em gee I had way too much fun on that thread.  I have never enjoyed a thread more than that.  It totally was like a slumber party.  And I don't think a single person on that list was disappointed in their gift...if they were, they were good at hiding their feelings.

I just for real hope that my giftee for this year is a fun person who actually participates because my giftee's lack of participation in the thread was my only disappointment.

I liked the feeling of spontaneity, camaraderie, and joyfulness on that thread very much.


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## NotTheMama (May 17, 2014)

zadidoll said:


> Secret Santa Nails 2014 will most likely make a return.


Yeah!!


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## jennm149 (May 17, 2014)

First -- yay I'm glad there will be another nails secret santa. It was a lot of fun and I'm not going to be traveling so much this year, so I can be in more. Hopefully, my recipient won't be trying to swaplift a circular swap box this year (or actually steal one and get banned from MUT right after Christmas -- it made me so mad and I'd just emptied my stash for her -- grrr) so I'll know if she liked her gift!

Second -- I was more concerned that people might opt out of SeSa because they don't have the same access to "free" stuff -- stashes, points, etc. -- that others do. I don't think anyone here was anything but thrilled to bits with their gift, so there's no reason for anyone to not participate. But if the consensus is that isn't an issue, that's fine by me.


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## BSquared (May 17, 2014)

I missed this last year but I wanna do it this year! Anything I need to do to get ready? Do you have to have trade history? Imma have to get to trading if it is!


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## tacehtpuekam (May 17, 2014)

bsquared said:


> I missed this last year but I wanna do it this year! Anything I need to do to get ready? Do you have to have trade history? Imma have to get to trading if it is!


Assuming it's similar to last year, it will be a certain post count &amp; a 'joined by' date. Since you've been a member since last year &amp; you have 430 posts, you should be fine!   /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

I believe if someone has negative feedback from trades that could potentially prevent them from joining, but you don't have to have any trades.


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## meaganola (May 17, 2014)

bsquared said:


> I missed this last year but I wanna do it this year! Anything I need to do to get ready? Do you have to have trade history? Imma have to get to trading if it is!


Here's the post with all of the rules, but to cut to the chase:



> *General rules:*
> 
> 
> Members who participate must have a minimum of 50 posts.
> ...


So, basically, no trade history requirement beyond no bad history, but I would recommend that you go ahead and start trading!  I think this whole forum is more fun when you have that sort of interaction with fellow forumites.


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## BSquared (May 17, 2014)

Woohoo thanks! I'm a really bad trader because I always open all my stuff right away to at least test it and I don't want to send people used stuff. But shopping for someone else I can do!!  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## DonnaD (May 17, 2014)

I've never formally traded anything but I've sent things back and forth with people and done a few polish swap boxes.  You didn't used to be able to get feedback for informal trades, but now I think anyone can leave you feedback without a specific trade thread to point to.  Not sure about that though.


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## meaganola (May 17, 2014)

bsquared said:


> Woohoo thanks! I'm a really bad trader because I always open all my stuff right away to at least test it and I don't want to send people used stuff. But shopping for someone else I can do!!  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


Heh.  You obviously haven't been around here long enough to develop a strong subscription habit!  I think I now have *three* silver Cynthia Rowley eyeliners since I have multiple Birchbox subs.  Or GWPs:  When Sephora puts out a good GWP bag, there's a frenzy around here with people trying to stock up on samples of a particular product in the bag.  I think the Blitz Kits items were *major* players in Santa packages last year, whether as items to go in the packages or items to be traded for other things to send!


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## BSquared (May 17, 2014)

meaganola said:


> Heh. You obviously haven't been around here long enough to develop a strong subscription habit! I think I now have *three* silver Cynthia Rowley eyeliners since I have multiple Birchbox subs. Or GWPs: When Sephora puts out a good GWP bag, there's a frenzy around here with people trying to stock up on samples of a particular product in the bag. I think the Blitz Kits items were *major* players in Santa packages last year, whether as items to go in the packages or items to be traded for other things to send!


Ha! Subscription boxes are the one thing that I've resisted. One of them was tempting me last month (I lurk the threads to see what people are getting...that Henry Bendel one was hard to resist) but I feel like it's a black hole I don't need to get started with or I'll never give it up!!Edit: was it Henri Bendel? The one where you got a gift card!


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## tanya0949 (May 17, 2014)

I've been away from MUT for quite some time due to health issues but I'm so excited to start thinking about this years Secret Santa. I had so much fun last year and can't wait for this year.  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## zadidoll (May 18, 2014)

Oh those Sephora Blitz GWP... love those!


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## DonnaD (Jul 22, 2014)

Having twice had buddies who didn't participate AT ALL, I would really love participation to be a requirement.  I do not kid.  I for real honestly cannot figure out why a person would even sign on for something like this if they don't intend to participate in the fun.  Frankly, it bugs the crap out of me.

I also think a public reveal should be a requirement.

I don't know if the people who don't participate even have any idea how un-fun their lack of participation makes it for those of us who buy for them.  It's very disheartening.


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## meaganola (Jul 23, 2014)

Totally agree, @DonnaD.  If not a requirement, at least a strong warning that there is a huge emphasis on this nowadays.  I think a big issue here is that participation wasn't really A Thing until the 2013 Secret Santa, and that was the first time we even had a discussion thread, so, no, people from previous years *don't* understand how important participation has become, even if it's not in this thread (that is, posting elsewhere on the forum, so we can stalk get ideas from all over the forum!), and I think some people popped in solely to sign up and then dropped out of sight until reveal time.  Not only is it more fun, but it helps us put together more personalized experiences for our recipients, which is more fun for everyone involved, even the people who aren't directly involved in the present itself!

ANYWAY.  I'm hoping that the introduction of the year-round chat thread (spoiler:  it's going to open on August 1st!  Get ready!) will help cultivate chat outside of the exchange periods so it will feel natural for everyone to hang out, and it will help break the ice and ease people not currently in the discussion thread(s) into the chat culture we have going on over here once the exchanges officially start.

(There *will* always be someone who doesn't participate in the chatter threads, but, seriously, lurkers, it's a fun way to kill time and make MUT buddies!)


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## Kelly Silva (Jul 23, 2014)

I third the participation vote, and I also think there should be an emphasis on how many posts they have and when they joined. I think it needs to be more/longer than was done for instance in the Summerswap. It's very difficult to shop for someone when they have few posts, and mostly posted replies to other people. Very little can be stalked in these instances. Another problem is having someone who used to post in the past, but dropped off later. Hard to manage this type of thing, but it makes shopping for items they still want difficult.


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## tacehtpuekam (Jul 23, 2014)

Yep. I agree with most of these posts and pretty much stand by what I posted earlier in the thread. 

1) Increased post count + membership time. I know earlier in the thread, @@zadidoll had mentioned a cutoff of July 1st &amp; I think that's fairly reasonable. As far as posts go, I'm thinking we increase to 100. [On a related note, would it be insane to do 50/100/x amount of posts in a certain time frame? I remember looking through some of the sign ups last year and while they did have 50 posts, it was 50 posts over several YEARS.]

2) Participation should be STRONGLY encouraged, if not mandatory. Isn't there a rule with the circular swaps where you have to login/post every x amount of days? I vote we adopt that rule. Obviously there's not much we can do if people aren't participating after the assignments go out, but maybe it could affect their ability to sign up for future Secret Santas. 

3) Shorter sign up window + longer shopping time. I think most people already know if they want to participate or not...a week (maybe 10 days?) should be plenty sufficient. And if people are going to be out of town or something, they can always message a mod ahead of time &amp; let them know they want to sign up. I really liked having more time to shop for the Summer round &amp; would love to have that again for Winter, especially since shipping can take longer around the holidays. It was a LITTLE long though, so maybe 4 weeks?


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## Kelly Silva (Jul 23, 2014)

allistra44 said:


> 3) Shorter sign up window + longer shopping time. I think most people already know if they want to participate or not...a week (maybe 10 days?) should be plenty sufficient. And if people are going to be out of town or something, they can always message a mod ahead of time &amp; let them know they want to sign up. I really liked having more time to shop for the Summer round &amp; would love to have that again for Winter, especially since shipping can take longer around the holidays. It was a LITTLE long though, so maybe 4 weeks?


Summer is probably a nice time to have a longer shopping window since there aren't as many sales as there are during the holidays. But I did find myself procrastinating for the beginning half of the shopping window for summer, so I wouldn't mind if it was a little shorter.


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## bonita22 (Jul 23, 2014)

DonnaD said:


> I also think a public reveal should be a requirement.


I agree with this 100%! My FGC hasn't posted her reveal even though she received her box almost 2 weeks ago. I'm not sure why she hasn't posted, but at this point I don't think she will. It makes me a bit sad and frankly it took some of the fun out of the exchange. I hope she liked everything I sent her.

ETA: I agree with the shorter sign up window and more time to shop. Requiring being a member by July 1 is a great idea.


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## tacehtpuekam (Jul 23, 2014)

Kelly Silva said:


> Summer is probably a nice time to have a longer shopping window since there aren't as many sales as there are during the holidays. But I did find myself procrastinating for the beginning half of the shopping window for summer, so I wouldn't mind if it was a little shorter.


I was thinking of making it longer on the other end...cutting into the shipping window. Just so people can take advantage of the Black Friday deals &amp; still get the things they ordered in time! Last year I almost missed the shipping deadline because I was waiting on some things I ordered to get to me.

ETA: I guess on that note, I'd like a shortened shipping window  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## Kelly Silva (Jul 23, 2014)

bonita22 said:


> I agree with this 100%!
> 
> My FGC hasn't posted her reveal even though she received her box almost 2 weeks ago. I'm not sure why she hasn't posted, but at this point I don't think she will. It makes me a bit sad and frankly it took some of the fun out of the exchange.


I'm worried my Summerswap person won't post hers...it's a big bummer   /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />



allistra44 said:


> I was thinking of making it longer on the other end...cutting into the shipping window. Just so people can take advantage of the Black Friday deals &amp; still get the things they ordered in time! Last year I almost missed the shipping deadline because I was waiting on some things I ordered to get to me.
> 
> ETA: I guess on that note, I'd like a shortened shipping window  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


Yeah that works too. Either way I'll procrastinate, so more time either way is a good thing!


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## Shalott (Jul 23, 2014)

I'd love to participate in something like this but the whole aspect of trading sub/sample items to get goodies for your partner makes me feel a little uncomfortable - I'm a fairly private person, and It doesn't make me wholly comfortable to give out my address to many different people.

I feel bad saying such a thing because it makes seem as if I don't find the members of this board trustworthy which isn't the case at all! :flowers: I've always been a cautious person.

I saw several people mention how much fun the trading for items is, but if one were able to get such goodies without trades, would that exclude them from joining the Secret Santa? To be honest, I just love giving gifts and my family is 90% boys and 10% women who aren't interested in cosmetics. I would LOVE to shop for this type of event!


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## tacehtpuekam (Jul 23, 2014)

Shalott said:


> I'd love to participate in something like this but the whole aspect of trading sub/sample items to get goodies for your partner makes me feel a little uncomfortable - I'm a fairly private person, and It doesn't make me wholly comfortable to give out my address to many different people.
> 
> I feel bad saying such a thing because it makes seem as if I don't find the members of this board trustworthy which isn't the case at all! :flowers: I've always been a cautious person.
> 
> I saw several people mention how much fun the trading for items is, but if one were able to get such goodies without trades, would that exclude them from joining the Secret Santa? To be honest, I just love giving gifts and my family is 90% boys and 10% women who aren't interested in cosmetics. I would LOVE to shop for this type of event!


You absolutely don't have to do trades to get items for your person! I don't think I did any for this round. It was all stuff I either purchased or had in my own stash.  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

ETA: I hope you join! We'd love to have you!


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## Elizabeth Mac (Jul 23, 2014)

I completely agree about posting a reveal! I didn't even realize this was an issue!! I would be really bummed and feel my gift wasn't appreciated if my person didn't acknowledge the gift as such.  

I have no preference with regard to the length of the sign-up/buying/shipping windows, as I haven't had any issues in the past. I will say that I would like to be able to take full advantage of black Friday/cyber Monday deals!!

I don't disagree about the posting requirements. My two cents is just to be mindful of those who are more shy like I am.  :blush:


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## Kristine Walker (Jul 23, 2014)

As long as I can shop Black Friday/Cyber Monday sales before the ship-out I'm fine on dates. I want to maximize my dollars so I can spoil my lady rotten! 

One thing I am not fine on is rudeness.

  No one should have to beg, or post repeated hints to get a simple acknowledgement that a package arrived safely. People put a ton of time, energy, and thought into the gifts they send out. If the receiver cannot be bothered to post it arrived within 24 hours, they should not sign-up at all. I saw more than one case of this in Midsummer Swap, it causes deeply hurt feelings and anger.

  Mandatory reveals, written or photos. I want to know what everyone got, it spreads the happy around.


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## Shalott (Jul 23, 2014)

allistra44 said:


> You absolutely don't have to do trades to get items for your person! I don't think I did any for this round. It was all stuff I either purchased or had in my own stash.  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />
> 
> ETA: I hope you join! We'd love to have you!


Thank you! I've actually been somewhat lurking the Summerswap boards and it looks like a lot of fun. I will definitely keep an eye out for the timelines and all, to make sure I will be able to meet deadlines! ^_^ /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## jennm149 (Jul 23, 2014)

OK, so I'd written this ridiculously long post about why we shouldn't have a minimum requirement (mostly because I'm not sure how we'd avoid "hi, busy, post more later" type posts to meet the letter of the requirement, if not the spirit). Then I realized that if we have a "question of the day" or a "topic of the week" that everyone is expected to chime in on occassionally -- X (maybe 5 or 10) times from beginning of sign-ups to the beginning of the mailing period -- that might address the issue.  New/shy people might find it easier if there's a topic we're touching on, and if we have a requirement of a certain # of posts overall that isn't frequency related (life happens!), if someone is away for a week or two, but pops in before/after, would that work?

I'm just thinking (selfishly) about the last 2 weeks for me -- issues at work and with the house; a flare-up of an old knee injury that's involved appointments and tests and physical therapy -- it was hard to even read posts, much less post myself.  But if there had just been a topic we were "all" talking about -- it would have been easier to post a reply with my $0.02 (or $2.00, more likely).

I also liked the lengthy survey we did for Midsummer, both in terms of demonstrating commitment and giving helpful shopping information.  I know some are concerned that it becomes a "gimme" list -- but I didn't see that in those lists this summer.  I'd say that we should try to get the survey up by the beginning of sign-ups and everyone should complete it by the day before names are sent out, or they would be ineligible to participate. 

Time: 4 weeks from when we get the names until the close of the shipping window seems about right.

As for posting reveals -- in my personal experience, it wasn't the fact that no reveal was posted that bothered me; it was that the person didn't even reach out privately to let me know she'd received it, much less to say "thanks."  If a Secret Santa and her "good girl" (or boy) are OK with a private exchange of thanks and the Santa lets the moderators know all is well, I can respect that.  I may not like it -- because "ooohing" and "aaahing" at the pretties is part of the fun -- but I'd be OK with it.

And somehow even with editing, this is still ridiculously long.  See what I mean about answering questions?


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## BSquared (Jul 23, 2014)

Shalott said:


> I'd love to participate in something like this but the whole aspect of trading sub/sample items to get goodies for your partner makes me feel a little uncomfortable - I'm a fairly private person, and It doesn't make me wholly comfortable to give out my address to many different people.
> 
> I feel bad saying such a thing because it makes seem as if I don't find the members of this board trustworthy which isn't the case at all! :flowers: I've always been a cautious person.
> 
> I saw several people mention how much fun the trading for items is, but if one were able to get such goodies without trades, would that exclude them from joining the Secret Santa? To be honest, I just love giving gifts and my family is 90% boys and 10% women who aren't interested in cosmetics. I would LOVE to shop for this type of event!


I have never done a single trade here, including for my summerswap buddy. I just used promo codes, GWPs, shopped my stash, and used discounts when avaliable to keep my overall costs down. You can totally do it without swapping if you want!
Edit: I agree with mandatory reveals. Even if on the off chance someone gets a REALLY crap gift and doesn't feel comfortable posting it, they at least need to PM a swap coordinator or something and let them know they got it.


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## chelsealady (Jul 23, 2014)

In the beginning I was against the length of the survey. But after I saw how it worked in this swap, I have changed my mind. I think the survey was/is great idea.

And I like the idea of a question of the day in the discussion thread in addition to the survey.

That being said we can't make a person post. But I think there should be a rule or guideline that if you don't post your reveal you can't participate in the next one.


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## DonnaD (Jul 23, 2014)

chelsealady said:


> That being said we can't make a person post. But I think there should be a rule or guideline that if you don't post your reveal you can't participate in the next one.


:smilehappyyes:


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## meaganola (Jul 23, 2014)

So how did everyone think the admin side of things went?  Was it good or bad that there were three of us behind the scenes?  And were the surveys/godchild directory/fairy threads helpful?  

(Yes, I know the survey was looooong, but I pulled most of those questions from the Secret Santa discussion thread back in November/December.  I absolutely could not keep up with the questions ans answers during that original time and had a bit of a meltdown, which is why I was a *major* proponent of the survey thread this time around:  Let's have a list to fill out up front and be done with it.  It had a lot of editing issues, but I couldn't figure out where to cut any more, so I figured we might as well put all of the questions out there because it's easy to just skip a question in a survey, but trying to get to everything in-thread was a nightmare.)

(The directory basically came about because of the forum migration and *major* changes that had happened right before signups.  It took me weeks to figure out how to search by member name, and I think I still hadn't learned how to do it quite yet when things started rolling around here, so it was a selfish move on my part:  I'm just going to gather all of the names in this one place so it will be easy for me to find my godchild once I get my assignment.  I have no clue whether it was useful for anyone else or will be useful next time around.)


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## Kristine Walker (Jul 23, 2014)

The survey was extremely useful. Sometimes people never really post, so without the survey the FGM would have been sool. I thought having 3 admin. was brilliant, the job would be just too much for a single person.

  Is there an easy way to make the survey part of the sign-up process, so that the info comes in at the same time? Thanks to all the admin. and moderators who make these swaps possible.


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## elizabethrose (Jul 23, 2014)

My quick two cents about the posting requirements- as someone who LOVES being a part of these but currently is in an intensive grad school program and barely has any free time (I'm sitting at the hair salon as I type this- my hour of freedom!!!) I worry about the amount of posts in a certain time- I guess as long as they're reasonable. I haven't been around for 5 weeks and it's killing me! I check the reveals and go "oh how pretty!" And move on. Killer.


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## lovepink (Jul 23, 2014)

I liked the seperate threads for this round.  The fairy thread, the wish list thread, the discussion and reveal.  It made it easy to subscribe to the threads and get updates!  Plus on the fairy thread having them all listed with the @ then user name made messaging them so easy!

I vote for longer shopping, less shipping.  Although for this round I had bought all the stuff and waited to send till last minute but that is my own fault!

It makes me super sad for the people who were deprived of a reveal from the FGC or even a message!  I PMd my FGM before I posted in the thread as I thought she deserved first acknowledgement of her efforts!

I am not sure of best way to keep that from happening but think it should be considered for the future swaps.


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## pooteeweet213 (Jul 23, 2014)

They survey was totally necessary! It helps so much! And I really liked the longer time because it gave me time to craft! I wouldn't have been able to sew the headbands for my FGC otherwise. I struggle with posting frequently because I never feel like I have something interesting enough to say. Doing a question of the day for everyone to answer would help a lot though! It would definitely motivate me to post more and would be exciting to see my buddies answers.


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## meaganola (Jul 23, 2014)

As far as a question of the day/week goes, is everyone talking about something directly related to the swap (for example, what's your favorite flavor of lip balm?), a general topic of discussion (say, what movie are you most looking forward to seeing in the next month and why?), or something else?


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## jennm149 (Jul 23, 2014)

meaganola said:


> As far as a question of the day/week goes, is everyone talking about something directly related to the swap (for example, what's your favorite flavor of lip balm?), a general topic of discussion (say, what movie are you most looking forward to seeing in the next month and why?), or something else?


I think it could be either, although especially early on, it might be helpful to be swap-related. Jessica and Babs did a great job kicking off the Summerswap thread that way. It lets people jump right in. And people were good about keeping it going.

Having a few mods seemed to work well. Maybe more important is how it worked for the moderators!

And the directory was handy so the surveys didn't get buried. Maybe instead of a sign-up thread where we just say "signed up," we could post the surveys there. They'd all.be together and we could look without anyone knowing.


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## DonnaD (Jul 23, 2014)

I'm happy for at least a month for shopping because I craft.  I had to rip @@puppymomofthree's afghan out and start over when I ran out of yarn and couldn't get more.  I managed to get it done just in the nick of time.  I don't know if I'd ever make another afghan for someone but I'd need a good month for it.

The admins in both swaps are awesome.  You guys put a lot of work into this and I can't thank you enough.  You make it fun for all of us!

I respect that people are busy.  I have gone days without logging in but I make a point of looking at the threads at least once a week.  I don't think it's too much to ask that a person actually participate once a week.  And for real, after having myself twice dealt with no show buddies and having to have a mod basically make my ss person acknowledge my pm's and having seen several other girls have their hearts broken by swap buddies who can't even say thanks much less post a reveal, I'm not feeling very understanding of people with "I'm busy" excuses.  If you're that busy that you can't muster even 10 minutes a week for the threads, then don't join.  Seriously.


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## DonnaD (Jul 23, 2014)

That last post makes me sound really mean.  I don't mean to be.  I try to keep a good heart...really, I do.  I guess  I'm the type of person who shows hurt as anger.

No show buddies make us sad...I guess that's what I really want to say.


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## chelsealady (Jul 23, 2014)

I think the mods did a great job. I loved the way the threads were organized. No thread got overwhelming and nothing got lost.


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## Kelly Silva (Jul 23, 2014)

DonnaD said:


> I respect that people are busy.  I have gone days without logging in but I make a point of looking at the threads at least once a week.  I don't think it's too much to ask that a person actually participate once a week.  And for real, after having myself twice dealt with no show buddies and having to have a mod basically make my ss person acknowledge my pm's and having seen several other girls have their hearts broken by swap buddies who can't even say thanks much less post a reveal, I'm not feeling very understanding of people with "I'm busy" excuses.  If you're that busy that you can't muster even 10 minutes a week for the threads, then don't join.  Seriously.


To go off your point, if someone is spending a month of their life obsessing over every detail of a gift for someone, the very least the receiver could do is take 10-20 minutes to post a reveal. Even if there's no time for photos, or a huge detailed explanation, just a few minutes to acknowledge the person publicly and thank them I think would be sufficient for me. I think most of us spend a lot of time and energy on this, and to be "too busy" to post a reveal, even a small one, is unfair.


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## tacehtpuekam (Jul 24, 2014)

Just wanted to clarify... when I said 'x amount of posts in a certain amount of time' for the requirements..I meant like 50/100 posts in the last year.  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> Only because I know I've seen people signed up who DO have 50 posts but they've been a member for 3 years or something. That just doesn't give people enough current information to work off of, in my opinion. 

As far as posting during the actual exchange, I realize people get busy. I've hardly been on at all this week because work is so nuts &amp; all I want to do when I get home is sleep! It doesn't have to be anything crazy. Maybe just posting at least once every two weeks or something (in the SS thread) &amp; if you're going to be out of town or offline for an extended period of time, just let a mod know. I'm just concerned about the people who literally signed up and we never heard from them again during the entire exchange.


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## puppymomofthree (Jul 24, 2014)

DonnaD said:


> That last post makes me sound really mean.  I don't mean to be.  I try to keep a good heart...really, I do.  I guess  I'm the type of person who shows hurt as anger.
> 
> No show buddies make us sad...I guess that's what I really want to say.


You are so not mean!  You are fantastic, and a wonderful buddy to have!


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## Elizabeth Mac (Jul 24, 2014)

I think the survey was very helpful! I found some great information regarding colors, scents, and general likes/dislikes. It really helped me get a sense of my FGC.

I also believe the mods and fairies did a WONDERFUL job!! The gift from my FGM took a little vacation in the wrong town for a couple of days, and @ was on top of it by checking in with both me and my FGM until the package was delivered to my hands. I really appreciate the time and effort put into this!!


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## kawaiiwoofs (Jul 24, 2014)

I really like mandatory surveys. They're so helpful and can at least give some guidance if you have a quieter Santee.

I think pushing back the membership sign up date is a great idea and can avoid having 50 posts of "I agree!" in order to hit the 50 deadline by the sign up date.

I like the idea of emphasizing the importance of participation (and I can't imagine NOT participating!) in the chat threads but people do get busy, have lives outside of MUT, and the holidays get crazy sometimes! While we're kicking around the idea of mandatory participation or posts replying to a question of a week (right? I've interpreted the posts correctly thus far?) --- What are the repercussions if someone does not participate? Who is actually going to take count of these participation quotas? That's a hell of a lot of work for an organizer. I know we're coming from a good place with these ideas but I'm just thinking from an admin perspective.

Babs and I worked hard to encourage participation and had kinda "kick off" chit chatty questions in the discussion thread. It's unfortunate but sometimes we gotta accept that some people may never pipe up!

OH just remembered this. I think we could also have a tutorial on how to find all of everyone's posts via their profile. And where to go to find their survey, etc. Seems simple but some people might need implicit directions... Got a few requests about wanting a full update about what's happened in x amount of time because they've been busy and away. Or complaints about not having ANY to work off of and 1 their person did post a survey/wishlist 2 their posts actually had a lot of info. Sorry. But no. Help me help you!


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## DonnaD (Jul 24, 2014)

usofjessamerica said:


> I like the idea of emphasizing the importance of participation (and I can't imagine NOT participating!) in the chat threads but people do get busy, have lives outside of MUT, and the holidays get crazy sometimes! While we're kicking around the idea of mandatory participation or posts replying to a question of a week (right? I've interpreted the posts correctly thus far?) --- What are the repercussions if someone does not participate? Who is actually going to take count of these participation quotas? That's a hell of a lot of work for an organizer. I know we're coming from a good place with these ideas but I'm just thinking from an admin perspective.



Repercussions?  How about not being able to participate in future gift exchanges?

If a person KNOWS that their lives are a busy mess, why would they sign up for this in the first place?  Seriously?  I love the circular nail polish swaps but I bowed out in the 3rd round when I knew that things were about to get super busy for me.

I just really think it's selfish and rude for a person  to involve themselves in something like this and then just be completely not present for the duration.  What's the point?  Do they need gifts that badly?   There's no excitement or participation from them AT ALL.  Some of them never bother to say a simple thank you.  A few of them never even acknowledge the present at all!!

I don't know about other people, but to me that's incredibly insensitive, self-centered and damned rude.

I don't think a participation rule is too much to ask.  If you're going to sign up for this type of thing, then participate...if you don't want to participate then just go to the trade threads.  

And for real, if I get another no-show non-participating secret santa this year, I'll never do it again.  It's disheartening.  It makes me sad.  It's no fun and it makes me feel used.


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## DonnaD (Jul 24, 2014)

Also, it wouldn't be a bunch of work for mods.  Obviously, a person will know whether or not their buddy is participating and can contact a mod to have them try to nudge participation.  If the person still doesn't participate, they can be warned.

It's easy enough.  Everyone ends up knowing who didn't participate.


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## meaganola (Jul 24, 2014)

What can be done if someone is an active chatter, signs up, and *then* stops participating? And what about people who do not respond to nudges from fairies/elves/mods? (This is not sarcastic or rhetorical. This is a real, genuine concern and struggle. I just don't know what the expected during-the-swap resolution is.)


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## DonnaD (Jul 24, 2014)

meaganola said:


> What can be done if someone is an active chatter, signs up, and *then* stops participating? And what about people who do not respond to nudges from fairies/elves/mods? (This is not sarcastic or rhetorical. This is a real, genuine concern and struggle. I just don't know what the expected during-the-swap resolution is.)


I know.  Aside from blocking future participation, I don't know what the answer is.

Mostly I'm just seriously tweaked by the fact one person's buddy hasn't made any acknowledgement whatsoever two weeks after receiving her gift.  It's just so damnably rude and hurtful.  People are in it for fun and there'll always be some selfish person who doesn't concern themselves with the feelings of others...and they'll never even know how hurtful they've been since they can't be bothered to participate...they just go on their merry way because nobody has told them they've been kind of a nasty jerk.


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## Lolo22 (Jul 24, 2014)

jennm149 said:


> I think it could be either, although especially early on, it might be helpful to be swap-related. Jessica and Babs did a great job kicking off the Summerswap thread that way. It lets people jump right in. And people were good about keeping it going.
> 
> Having a few mods seemed to work well. Maybe more important is how it worked for the moderators!
> 
> And the directory was handy so the surveys didn't get buried. Maybe instead of a sign-up thread where we just say "signed up," we could post the surveys there. They'd all.be together and we could look without anyone knowing.


I really like how random questions were flying around in the Summerswap thread, however I don't think my person answered any of them.  I can see how some people got pure gold off of some of the responses  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />.   I like the idea of some kind of mandatory posting in the SS thread once a week or whatever.  I mean really, _anything_ helps when you have nothing to go on.  Both of my swap people pretty much stopped posting once names were sent out so it's making me re-think if I want to be part of another exchange this Christmas.


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## Lolo22 (Jul 24, 2014)

usofjessamerica said:


> I really like mandatory surveys. They're so helpful and can at least give some guidance if you have a quieter Santee.
> 
> I think pushing back the membership sign up date is a great idea and can avoid having 50 posts of "I agree!" in order to hit the 50 deadline by the sign up date.
> 
> ...


What about if all the swap participants are tagged in a weekly chat question?  That way they get a reminder email (assuming their settings send them emails) about the thread.  Yes, they can ignore it, but it would be a polite reminder.  I think fairies/elves/roadies could even do this as long as the list of names is posted somewhere.


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## kawaiiwoofs (Jul 24, 2014)

DonnaD said:


> Also, it wouldn't be a bunch of work for mods. Obviously, a person will know whether or not their buddy is participating and can contact a mod to have them try to nudge participation. If the person still doesn't participate, they can be warned.
> 
> It's easy enough. Everyone ends up knowing who didn't participate.


I think we would need to set pretty clear standards about what it means to participate. Some people just simply do not post often.

To your earlier point, yes I totally agree that it's incredibly rude for someone to not say thank you, not post a reveal. That would break my heart.

But, some people join for the sake of GIFTING too not just to receive (although it's easier to think of it that way). Looking back on previous swaps over the last year or so that I've participated in, I noticed sometimes my gifter would hardly participate in the chat threads. She had a job that kept her really busy! She gave me an awesome gift and took the time to stalk thoroughly. I imagine that her own gifter may have had enough info to go off of but not crazy amounts that you would see from a constant person like myself. And to @meaganolas point - there ARE a good number of people who may be active in other threads or in discussion threads then trail off or life catches up and they disappear in the middle of the swap (but reemerge for a reveal which is nice). What do you do about them? To what standard is enough posts truly enough?


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## kawaiiwoofs (Jul 24, 2014)

DonnaD said:


> Also, it wouldn't be a bunch of work for mods. Obviously, a person will know whether or not their buddy is participating and can contact a mod to have them try to nudge participation. If the person still doesn't participate, they can be warned.
> 
> It's easy enough. Everyone ends up knowing who didn't participate.


To this point specifically, we can't just warm people for things that don't actually violate TOS. And, from the number of swaps - I HAVE nudged people to try to get them to participate or even do something basic like post their wishlist / survey. Bottom line, as a mod or as a normal ol person, I can't force anyone to do anything.

mods do have a fair bit of work - whether it's working on other pages; working on the swap itself; or working in real life. I personally would not be the mod to have the check list and make tick marks every time someone posts.


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## kawaiiwoofs (Jul 24, 2014)

DonnaD said:


> Repercussions? How about not being able to participate in future gift exchanges?
> 
> If a person KNOWS that their lives are a busy mess, why would they sign up for this in the first place? Seriously? I love the circular nail polish swaps but I bowed out in the 3rd round when I knew that things were about to get super busy for me.


But what if life just happens in the middle of the sign ups? What if, I don't know, my grandma dies, my company makes a big acquisition, or something else that will keep you away from posting because my life outside of the discussion thread might be keeping me too busy to post regularly?

Are you more trying to resolve the issue of not having the gift being acknowledged or the issue of someone not participating or both? I want to help find a solution but I think I want to know which is the bigger problem.


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## Kelly Silva (Jul 24, 2014)

Lolo22 said:


> I really like how random questions were flying around in the Summerswap thread, however I don't think my person answered any of them.  I can see how some people got pure gold off of some of the responses  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />.   I like the idea of some kind of mandatory posting in the SS thread once a week or whatever.  I mean really, _anything_ helps when you have nothing to go on.  Both of my swap people pretty much stopped posting once names were sent out so it's making me re-think if I want to be part of another exchange this Christmas.


Yeah I liked the questions too. I answered most of them, and I post a ton so I'm sure there was great stuff for my buddy. I like to think that most people have good intentions when it comes to this swap, so I wonder if a advisory at sign up that you should be available to participate in the thread, check your PMs, try to post a few times at least, for the swap. I know I sort of stumbled into the Summerswap just a few days before it closed, and I'm sure others who aren't familiar with how much time/energy it takes will stumble into the sign up page and sign up before really considering if they are going to have that kind of time/energy for the next month or two.


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## DonnaD (Jul 24, 2014)

usofjessamerica said:


> But what if life just happens in the middle of the sign ups? What if, I don't know, my grandma dies, my company makes a big acquisition, or something else that will keep you away from posting because my life outside of the discussion thread might be keeping me too busy to post regularly?
> 
> Are you more trying to resolve the issue of not having the gift being acknowledged or the issue of someone not participating or both? I want to help find a solution but I think I want to know which is the bigger problem.


Let's take my present person for example.  @@trekkersangel is my roadie and managed to get her to respond a couple of times.  She says she's busy with her job.

If she can take the 2 minutes out of her life to respond to my roadie, why couldn't she take an extra 30 seconds to drop in on the thread to say that?  See what I'm saying?  This isn't me saying you must post every day multiple times a day, it's ONCE A WEEK.  If someone can't get on the thread once a week, then why bother?

I'm not talking about cancer or death.  People tend to find that stuff out and no one is going to be upset when really serious issues crop up.  But for regular people who are busy with kids and jobs, there's no good excuse for not participating at all over the space of the 8-ish weeks these things tend to go on for.

Nobody is talking about posting regularly...we're talking about a once a week requirement.  We're not talking about forcing people to be happy here  We're talking about a picture reveal requirement.

Ya know, this isn't a group people have to join.  It's voluntary.  And a couple of participation rules isn't going to ruin anyone's experience.  Exceptions for real emergencies can always be made.

Most of the people who are regular participants will find a way to let someone know if there's a problem.  The regular participants aren't the problem.  The problem is the handful of people who sign up and then disappear.  I'm going to assume they don't even know there's reveal threads and fun discussion threads.  Nobody has told them.  These things tend to have 3 or 4 companion threads and I know I've personally gotten confused by them.  There's sign up, godmother thread, chat thread, reveal thread and who knows what else.  I myself am still not used to this forum.  I still have trouble finding stuff.

If it's built into the requirements then at least they'll know that this is how it's expected to be done.


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## trekkersangel (Jul 24, 2014)

I think this is a very difficult subject.  I participated in both swaps this summer.  I had one very active poster &amp; one that was more of a lurker.  I was still able to put together a nice gift for the lurker, but I definitely had to stalk a bit.  However, she turned out to be the sweetest thing that was just scared of what people would think of her responses.  She loved her gift, posted a reveal, &amp; sent me a wonderful thank you message.  I know there are a LOT of introverts out there who it really takes a LOT out of them to post on threads like this.  HOWEVER, I do feel that posting really needs to take place from everyone involved.  The more people post, the more awesome it is to buy for them.  So we need to come up with some way to really encourage people to post.

I really liked the idea of asking a questions &amp; tagging everyone in it with the @ signs.  That's a great little reminder that makes you say "Oh yeah, I need to say something over there for the wonderful person buying me a gift."  We can't force anyone to do anything, but we really need to put something in the first post of the thread/swap that says "If you sign up for this. . . you must acknowledge that you got a gift in the form of a reveal or thank you."  We still can't force it, but they'll read it when they sign up at least.

The survey was WONDERFUL for the swaps this summer.  I loved them, even though they were long.  I really got to know both my girls &amp; fell in love with their personalities.  It helped me buy the perfect things for them &amp; made the whole experience fun.  I felt like I was buying a present for my best friend.

And I think maybe we should put a link to the reveal threads from the swaps this summer &amp; have everyone review them "to get excited" for secret santa.  That reiterates how exciting these swaps are &amp; how happy &amp; wonderful we feel during them.  The whole summer swapping experience has really truly been sunshine, unicorns, &amp; rainbows for a lot of people.  We need to keep that in mind as we go forward because really there isn't a better thread on MuT right now.  You can't go to those threads without smiling.  I LOVE THEM.

And can I just say I'm SO excited to do this again with all of you in December?  I can't wait to stalk, shop, buy, &amp; bask in the reveals of happiness!!!  Hooray for Secret Santa.


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## kawaiimeows (Jul 24, 2014)

As long as someone meets the minimum requirements to join in and fulfill any survey obligations, they shouldn't be forced to converse during the duration of the secret santa events. Some people just don't post a lot. My SS didn't post a lot before and doesn't post a lot now either.

I think forcing people to post is unfair to to introverts and lurkers, or people with families/jobs/etc.

Forcing people to do something that they wouldn't normally do otherwise puts undue pressure on them and takes the fun out of what should be a fun thing, and everyone takes fun in different aspects of the SS experience.


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## Lolo22 (Jul 24, 2014)

kawaiimeows said:


> As long as someone meets the minimum requirements to join in and fulfill any survey obligations, they shouldn't be forced to converse during the duration of the secret santa events. Some people just don't post a lot. My SS didn't post a lot before and doesn't post a lot now either.
> 
> I think forcing people to post is unfair to to introverts and lurkers, or people with families/jobs/etc.
> 
> Forcing people to do something that they wouldn't normally do otherwise puts undue pressure on them and takes the fun out of what should be a fun thing, and everyone takes fun in different aspects of the SS experience.


But in the alternative, getting a person who drops off the face of the earth once the swap starts is no fun either. There has to be a way to make it fun for everyone. Answering what your favorite color or food is under an anonymous alias can't be that stressful.


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## kawaiimeows (Jul 24, 2014)

Lolo22 said:


> But in the alternative, getting a person who drops off the face of the earth once the swap starts is no fun either. There has to be a way to make it fun for everyone. *Answering what your favorite color or food is under an anonymous alias can't be that stressful.*


That's why there should just be a mandatory survey everyone fills out and that's it. There's no reason to force people to chat in the chit chat threads.


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## Dashery (Jul 24, 2014)

I think the survey helps a lot! I know my buddy didn't stick around to chat, but she had a pretty thorough survey, so I had no trouble shopping for her. (Of course, she also has a blog and posts elsewhere on the site, so maybe that's not the best example... :blush:  )

All I can say is, I love the survey! :wub:   Let's definitely keep that! And if we want to make it mandatory, we can tack it onto the sign-ups or something.

As for participation and everything else, I don't think there's one, right answer. We might all just have to settle on a best or fair solution, even if it's not perfect.   /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## DonnaD (Jul 24, 2014)

So is shyness the reason people can't even be bothered to post a thank you reveal??

People put a lot into their gifts.  I think EVERYONE wants to see reveals.  

Maybe you can't force people to be active participants but you can make them post a reveal or be disallowed further participation.  

My ss never posted a reveal.  Everyone knows I crochet and I had 4 or 5 people ask me if I had taken pictures of what I made her so I could show them.  I don't think my person was shy.  I think she didn't give a crap.


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## SaraP (Jul 24, 2014)

I just found this thread and spent the last 20 min reading though it, here's my 2 cents:

1. It should be mandatory that the gift is revealed and the sender acknowledged in the thread! This is simple common courtesy. Failure to do so should exclude you from future swaps.  

2. While no one can force participation in the threads, it should be strongly suggested on the initial sign up page. Now I'm a chatty cathy (and some might wish I'd just shut up! lol), but everyone can answer the occasional question. Threads move fast, so tags would be helpful and although not every question has to be answered, it really makes the swap fun. I love hearing what people like, do, need, or enjoy...even if they aren't my buddy.  

3. "Value" to me is that I had a wonderful time interacting with you all. The gift is a bonus and the reveal was outstanding (wasn't a part of it, but seeing the fun made me happy). 

4. Links on the 1st page for all the other threads connected to the swap would be helpful. Links to how to do things (insert spoiler, find buddy posts, make a know me thread) would be good too...

4. Our ss had a survey, but it wasn't sent out. That was fine because most people made a "get to know me" thread. I subscribed to all of them!! One or the other is needed.


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## kawaiimeows (Jul 24, 2014)

I really don't think people should be forced to publicly thank someone and post pictures if they don't want to. Is not thanking someone rude? Certainly, I would never do that.

But getting hung up on not being thanked/revealed to the entire forum is a very egotistical thing to get hung up about, and I don't think it is what secret santa is supposed to be about. Its about surprise gift giving and that's it. Revealing is just one facet of it because of the nature of the forum, just like posting deals, and hauls, and just talking about what we're doing or how we're wrapping our presents are other facets. I hardly even paid attention to any of the reveals.


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## DonnaD (Jul 24, 2014)

sarap said:


> 1. It should be mandatory that the gift is reveled and the sender acknowledged in the thread! This is simple common courtesy. Failure to do so should exclude you from future swaps.     2. While no one can force participation in the threads, it should be strongly suggested on the initial sign up page.


Exactly.  There is no reason short of illness or family emergency that a person can't post a reveal.  Sure, stuff happens and you might have the odd person be unable to post a reveal ON TIME but they need to have an explanation for it.  Making people who went out of their way to get you the nicest things possible feel like crap isn't the goal here, is it?


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## BSquared (Jul 24, 2014)

To me, I think the biggest cause of nerves or issues for givers in a swap is "is my person going to like her gift", at least it was for me. I don't care a WHOLE LOT about regular posting (I was lucky enough to get someone who posts so maybe I'm just optimistic) but I think it would be beneficial to make the requirements 1) you need to fill out a survey when you sign up. If you have the time to post in a thread that you want to do it, you have time to shop, and you have time to ship, I am confident you can find 10-15 minutes to fill out a survey. This way your buddy has at least some guidance if you never post again. Don't fill out the survey? (Maybe even make it pretty basic like 10 questions of "I like this, I hate this, here's what colors I like, then other optional questions for more details) you ain't signed up. Make the survey part of the sign up process. 2) no reveal or acknowledgement of receipt? you are not allowed in future swaps. Reveals are the fun part and I get how hurt someone could be if their gift wasn't acknowledged. You're super shy? PM your buddy and say you got it. You hate your gift and think your buddy is a mega weenie? PM a mod so at least they can let your buddy know it's received.

Just my two cents on what may help alleviate some stress for people.


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## SOSRedAlertSOS (Jul 24, 2014)

kawaiimeows said:


> I really don't think people should be forced to publicly thank someone and post pictures if they don't want to. Is not thanking someone rude? Certainly, I would never do that.
> 
> But getting hung up on not being thanked/revealed to the entire forum is a very egotistical thing to get hung up about, and I don't think it is what secret santa is supposed to be about. Its about surprise gift giving and that's it. Revealing is just one facet of it because of the nature of the forum, just like posting deals, and hauls, and just talking about what we're doing or how we're wrapping our presents are other facets. I hardly even paid attention to any of the reveals.


I agree that the person shouldn't have to be required to post pictures, though I do think it's nice to see everyone's gifts. It does seem nice to see your present being acknowledged though.


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## DonnaD (Jul 24, 2014)

kawaiimeows said:


> I really don't think people should be forced to publicly thank someone and post pictures if they don't want to. Is not thanking someone rude? Certainly, I would never do that.
> 
> But getting hung up on not being thanked/revealed to the entire forum is a very egotistical thing to get hung up about, and I don't think it is what secret santa is supposed to be about. Its about surprise gift giving and that's it. Revealing is just one facet of it because of the nature of the forum, just like posting deals, and hauls, and just talking about what we're doing or how we're wrapping our presents are other facets. I hardly even paid attention to any of the reveals.


I fail to see how one person's rudeness automatically makes a person who'd like to be acknowledged for their gift an egotist.

Ya know, I'm so put out and pissed off by the things you are saying, I don't even want to be in this thread anymore.

I don't know what exactly is fun about this for you seeing as how you don't look at reveals or care if your person posts or even simply thanks you.  I don't know if you're just being contumacious or seriously don't care.  Either way, I'm unfollowing this thread now because I am actually really feeling angry.


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## SaraP (Jul 24, 2014)

kawaiimeows said:


> Is not thanking someone rude?


Yes, it is.

I guess to me the reveal part seems less like "look what I gave you", rather it's wonderful to see what others received. People that we have gotten to know during the swap, I'd liken it to when we open gift at Christmas we don't go all "free for all", but take turns opening and enjoy seeing each others excitement.


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## Kelly Silva (Jul 24, 2014)

kawaiimeows said:


> Is not thanking someone rude? Certainly, I would never do that.


I think it's extremely rude, I'm one of those people who still sends thank you cards for every gift i receive. But I mean dropping off the forums, not acknowledging you even received your gift or anything on here, and not sending anything to your person is very rude.


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## kawaiimeows (Jul 24, 2014)

KellyKaye said:


> I agree that the person shouldn't have to be required to post pictures, though I do think it's nice to see everyone's gifts. It does seem nice to see your present being acknowledged though.


I agree 100%, it is nice to see your present get fawned over and all of that. I'm just of the philosophy that the point of secret santa isn't that self-gratification, even though its a nice side-effect of secret santa.


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## kawaiimeows (Jul 24, 2014)

Kelly Silva said:


> I think it's extremely rude, I'm one of those people who still sends thank you cards for every gift i receive. But I mean dropping off the forums, not acknowledging you even received your gift or anything on here, and not sending anything to your person is very rude.


Its rude, but that doesn't mean they should be banned from participating in the future. If they sent out a present and they received a present, they successfully completed secret santa. Precluding someone from participating in the future for anything out side of not sending a gift, or sending an extremely shoddy gift is excessive and way too police-like and I don't think it is what makeuptalk signifies.


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## SOSRedAlertSOS (Jul 24, 2014)

I think my greatest issue with having someone not post or acknowledge that they have received their gift is whether or not it arrived to them safely. I don't always trust USPS shipping and I think that posting within 24 hours of your tracking saying delivered is completely do-able by most people. This is why we asked on the Midsummer page to post if you would be going on vacation... But that obviously didn't work out as well as it should have.

Posting "I got it" takes about 15 seconds, you can access the site from mobile, desktop, etc.


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## SOSRedAlertSOS (Jul 24, 2014)

kawaiimeows said:


> I agree 100%, it is nice to see your present get fawned over and all of that. I'm just of the philosophy that the point of secret santa isn't that self-gratification, even though its a nice side-effect of secret santa.


But we wouldn't set up reveal threads if this weren't important to most of us. I don't think seeing my gift fawned over makes me egotistical though. Honestly, I just want to be able to see pictures to make sure all the gifts I sent arrived safely.


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## SaraP (Jul 24, 2014)

I saw a few in the mid-ss who couldn't post photos, they took a few minutes from their day and wrote about the wonderfulness that the box contained...not that hard and should be required.


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## BSquared (Jul 24, 2014)

I don't think it's unreasonable to require that someone at least acknowledge they received the gift. Whether that's through 180 pictures on the reveal thread, a quick post that says "yep got my gift and I love it thanks!", a pm to your buddy saying the same thing, or asking a mod/fairy/roadie whatever to pass along a message.

I did the swap not because I want someone to gush "omfg I love you so much you are the best you bought me such good stuff!" But because I wanted to make someone happy. I took time to stalk. I took time to shop. I spent money on someone I don't even know. If that person never even acknowledged that.....I'd be kind of bummed, not gonna lie. I'd also be concerned. Did her gift actually arrive? Did a neighbor steal it? Was it delivered to the wrong house?? Did she die or something??

Asking for a post singing your praises and telling you that you are a wonderful person complete with careful photo documentation of the gifts, yes that's egotistical. Asking for a simple thank you or acknowledgement of receipt is just basic common courtesy.

Just my two cents while I wait for my nail polish to dry.


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## Kelly Silva (Jul 24, 2014)

kawaiimeows said:


> Its rude, but that doesn't mean they should be banned from participating in the future. If they sent out a present and they received a present, they successfully completed secret santa. Precluding someone from participating in the future for anything out side of not sending a gift, or sending an extremely shoddy gift is excessive and way too police-like and I don't think it is what makeuptalk signifies.


I disagree, I've seen people get their feelings hurt because after all the hard work, time, and money put into a thoughtful gift, the receiver couldn't be bothered to say anything to anyone about it. I for one, would be crushed if my person didn't say anything, and would be cautionary about signing up again. I don't think Secret Santa should be about hurt feelings either.


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## Dashery (Jul 24, 2014)

Never fear, @@SaraP! We never get tired of your chit chat!

And I totally second your idea to have links to "how-to's" and other relevant threads on the first page.

That is all.


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## kawaiimeows (Jul 24, 2014)

KellyKaye said:


> But we wouldn't set up reveal threads if this weren't important to most of us. I don't think seeing my gift fawned over makes me egotistical though. Honestly, I just want to be able to see pictures to make sure all the gifts I sent arrived safely.


My SS giftee didn't post pictures. That was such an inconsequential detail to me that I had to actually go back through the thread and look to see if that happened because I seriously did not remember. So no, it wasn't most important to me.


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## SaraP (Jul 24, 2014)

I think it's important to people other then the sender. I found joy in the reveals from mid-ss and I was just a fairy. As the sender I want to know you got the gift and as a swap participants I think we all want to share in your happy. 
 

*No not most important, but still important.


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## SOSRedAlertSOS (Jul 24, 2014)

kawaiimeows said:


> My SS giftee didn't post pictures. That was such an inconsequential detail to me that I had to actually go back through the thread and look to see if that happened because I seriously did not remember. So no, it wasn't most important to me.


I totally understand that it was insignificant to you, and from what I'm collecting it seems that you don't think a reveal thread should even be in place (correct me if I'm wrong). However,  I think that would be a huge disappointment for a lot of us as the reveals help extend the joy of SS a little bit further.


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## kawaiimeows (Jul 24, 2014)

I really think this notion that we have to photograph and document every little thing to a T is a side effect of blog/social media/instagram culture. If Secret Santa is going to be this rabid about it, then I'm having serious second thoughts about participating in the future, because I get busy and don't get around to photographing things quite frequently, especially around the holidays because I have to travel a lot.


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## SaraP (Jul 24, 2014)

I don't *think photos are needed, this site is a pain in the rear end to post photos on!! I think a short "Thanks so much! I loved the xyz items" is not overly hard.


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## SOSRedAlertSOS (Jul 24, 2014)

kawaiimeows said:


> I really think this notion that we have to photograph and document every little thing to a T is a side effect of blog/social media/instagram culture. If Secret Santa is going to be this rabid about it, then I'm having serious second thoughts about participating in the future, because I get busy and don't get around to photographing things quite frequently.


I'm sure that you are right about this but like you, my SS didn't post pictures of her reveal either. So no one was fawning over my gift, and who cares. Like I said, I just wanted to know that it all arrived safely. I took very concentrated photo's of my gift because I am busy as well but I felt that my FGM deserved the acknowledgment for the amazing gift she had sent, even if it was only in a few photo's.


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## kawaiimeows (Jul 24, 2014)

KellyKaye said:


> I'm sure that you are right about this but like you, my SS didn't post pictures of her reveal either. So no one was fawning over my gift, and who cares. Like I said, I just wanted to know that it all arrived safely. I took very concentrated photo's of my gift because I am busy as well but I felt that my FGM deserved the acknowledgment for the amazing gift she had sent, even if it was only in a few photo's.


I think that's fair but there has to be some kind of definitive and reasonable rule, because in Donna's words_ "__Maybe you can't force people to be active participants but you can make them post a reveal or be disallowed further participation." _and as you can probably tell I am not comfortable with a rule that strict.


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## SOSRedAlertSOS (Jul 24, 2014)

bsquared said:


> To me, I think the biggest cause of nerves or issues for givers in a swap is "is my person going to like her gift", at least it was for me. I don't care a WHOLE LOT about regular posting (I was lucky enough to get someone who posts so maybe I'm just optimistic) but I think it would be beneficial to make the requirements 1) you need to fill out a survey when you sign up. If you have the time to post in a thread that you want to do it, you have time to shop, and you have time to ship, I am confident you can find 10-15 minutes to fill out a survey. This way your buddy has at least some guidance if you never post again. Don't fill out the survey? (Maybe even make it pretty basic like 10 questions of "I like this, I hate this, here's what colors I like, then other optional questions for more details) you ain't signed up. Make the survey part of the sign up process. 2) no reveal or acknowledgement of receipt? you are not allowed in future swaps. Reveals are the fun part and I get how hurt someone could be if their gift wasn't acknowledged. You're super shy? PM your buddy and say you got it. You hate your gift and think your buddy is a mega weenie? PM a mod so at least they can let your buddy know it's received.
> 
> Just my two cents on what may help alleviate some stress for people.


I totally agree that the survey should be apart of the sign-up process, you should have to submit it even before the sign-ups begin.


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## BSquared (Jul 24, 2014)

I think making the rule "you must somehow acknowledge you received your gift" would make people happy.

I also think this won't be that much of an issue. Summerswap reveals haven't started but there like what 2-3 people that haven't recognized their buddy in midsummer? For the VAST majority of swappers this rule wouldn't even be an issue.


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## SOSRedAlertSOS (Jul 24, 2014)

kawaiimeows said:


> I think that's fair but there has to be some kind of definitive and reasonable rule, because in Donna's words_ "__Maybe you can't force people to be active participants but you can make them post a reveal or be disallowed further participation." _and as you can probably tell I am not comfortable with a rule that strict.


That's definitely a strict rule because even though it's 2014, some of us don't have camera's or phones with a camera capability. I do think that a more reasonable requirement would be for the the giftee to be acknowledged by the gifter within 24 hours of the tracking showing delivered.


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## kawaiimeows (Jul 24, 2014)

KellyKaye said:


> That's definitely a strict rule because even though it's 2014, some of us don't have camera's or phones with a camera capability. I do think that a more reasonable requirement would be for the the giftee to be acknowledged by the gifter within 24 hours of the tracking showing delivered.


I think that is a good start but I would probably expand it to 48 or 72 hours *only* because I know a lot of people travel during the holidays and I could see a lot of people freaking out about not being able to notify their SS *immediately* so that might save whoever is moderating mass PMs of people panicking.


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## meaganola (Jul 24, 2014)

bsquared said:


> I think making the rule "you must somehow acknowledge you received your gift" would make people happy.
> 
> I also think this won't be that much of an issue. Summerswap reveals haven't started but there like what 2-3 people that haven't recognized their buddy in midsummer? For the VAST majority of swappers this rule wouldn't even be an issue.


One thing to keep in mind on this:  Everyone who signed up for Midsummer participated in one of the 2013 Secret Santas, so there was some awareness of the expectation surrounding reveals when they signed up.  That won't necessarily be the case for Secret Santa.


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## SOSRedAlertSOS (Jul 24, 2014)

kawaiimeows said:


> I think that is a good start but I would probably expand it to 48 or 72 hours *only* because I know a lot of people travel during the holidays and I could see a lot of people freaking out about not being able to notify their SS *immediately* so that might save whoever is moderating mass PMs of people panicking.


And this would play off of the idea that people would post vacation dates as well, so as long as they have publicly mentioned that they will be out of town, if their gift arrives then, it's reasonable for this period to be extended to 48-72 hours.


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## SaraP (Jul 24, 2014)

kawaiimeows said:


> I think that is a good start but I would probably expand it to 48 or 72 hours *only* because I know a lot of people travel during the holidays and I could see a lot of people freaking out about not being able to notify their SS *immediately* so that might save whoever is moderating mass PMs of people panicking.


I think 48-72 is better then 24. As the sender I'd want it asap, but that's not always feasible.


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## DonnaD (Jul 24, 2014)

kawaiimeows said:


> I really think this notion that we have to photograph and document every little thing to a T is a side effect of blog/social media/instagram culture. If Secret Santa is going to be this rabid about it, then I'm having serious second thoughts about participating in the future, because I get busy and don't get around to photographing things quite frequently, especially around the holidays because I have to travel a lot.


But you did.  I very specifically remember you being VERY involved in the ss thread and oooing and awwwing right along with the rest of us.  I'm calmer and not so angry now but I really am baffled by your input here.  It's completely the opposite of the way you were in the ss thread.

You made that thread extra fun for me to the point where I adopted you as a ninja santa.  I loved you on that thread.

What changed for you?


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## bonita22 (Jul 24, 2014)

I'm sorry if I'm "egotistical" for wanting my fgc to post her reveal or at least aknowledge it was received. I put a lot of time and energy into her gift. She didn't even acknowledge she received my gift for days even though she logged in everyday. I was beginning to think it was misdelivered or stolen. She did send me a message eventually and I'm ok with it.

Just because you don't care about reveals doesn't mean the rest of us don't care and are egotistical because we do care.


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## kawaiimeows (Jul 24, 2014)

DonnaD said:


> But you did.  I very specifically remember you being VERY involved in the ss thread and oooing and awwwing right along with the rest of us.  I'm calmer and not so angry now but I really am baffled by your input here.  It's completely the opposite of the way you were in the ss thread.
> 
> You made that thread extra fun for me to the point where I adopted you as a ninja santa.  I loved you on that thread.
> 
> What changed for you?


You're right, and I wasn't speaking about myself personally, and I also remember your SS and like I said earlier, I do think its incredibly rude that she didn't thank you. I also think your SS experience falls in to an "extreme" of members who aren't the typical SS participants. I don't remember seeing anyone with a SS as silent as yours. That's one reason why I don't think a strict rule should be instated.

Which leads to my second point, my SS didn't post a lot, and I still had a completely pleasant experience with her. She didn't post pictures of the gifts I got her, but she was extremely gracious about it and even messaged me a few months ago about how she still loves a particular polish I got her, even though she still doesn't post much. I believe chat threads are fun, but I don't believe people should be required to participate because I may not have gotten the SS I received if there were rules about posting vs not posting. I'm not ok with potentially scaring off lurkers/introverts.


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## kawaiimeows (Jul 24, 2014)

Also as an addendum: making a rule saying "you must thank your gift giver upon receipt" could come off as very abrasive, but requiring that people contact their gift giver within a certain amount of time to let them know the package arrived, like @ and @@SaraP suggested, would help open that door to thanking/conversing without it being so forced or weird.


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## DonnaD (Jul 24, 2014)

A reveal doesn't have to be pictures.  I stand by my assertion that a public acknowledgment needs to be a rule.  Even if your person thanks you in private, there are a lot of other ladies in the threads who'd like to know who your person was and that they're happy.

The bottom line is that it's sad and disheartening for those of us who get lurkers, the painfully shy or insensitive jerks as our recipients.  And since they don't seem to be the majority of people, a rule isn't going to have people fleeing the "oppressive rules" in droves.


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## Dashery (Jul 24, 2014)

*peeks in* Hey, um, can I suggest we let this issue rest for the night (or longer)? Maybe it would be best to let the dust of the two current swaps settle, and then come back and evaluate the issue again later.

I just worry this thread is starting to go in circles.

Deep breaths, friends!

(Ɔ˘⌣˘)(˘⌣˘)˘⌣˘ C)


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## kawaiimeows (Jul 24, 2014)

DonnaD said:


> Even if your person thanks you in private, there are a lot of other ladies in the threads who'd like to know who your person was and that their happy.


 
I understand where you're coming from, but we will have to just agree to disagree on this one.


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## tacehtpuekam (Jul 24, 2014)

Well, this escalated quickly.


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## kawaiiwoofs (Jul 24, 2014)

kawaiimeows said:


> Also as an addendum: making a rule saying "you must thank your gift giver upon receipt" could come off as very abrasive, but requiring that people contact their gift giver within a certain amount of time to let them know the package arrived, like @ and @@SaraP suggested, would help open that door to thanking/conversing without it being so forced or weird.


I totally agree with this. I think a private acknowledgment should be more than enough.

I get that it would suck to have a shy/less frequent poster. But, I would keep my upset feelings to myself until maybe after the swap itself was completed. I think if I was a less frequent poster, got my present, did some recon and saw that for weeks my my Santa complained about me and had a miserable time because of me and was open about it, I would only feel the incentive to bless her heart and move on with my life.


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## DonnaD (Jul 24, 2014)

usofjessamerica said:


> I totally agree with this. I think a private acknowledgment should be more than enough.
> 
> I get that it would suck to have a shy/less frequent poster. But, I would keep my upset feelings to myself until maybe after the swap itself was completed. I think if I was a less frequent poster, got my present, did some recon and saw that for weeks my my Santa complained about me and had a miserable time because of me and was open about it, I would only feel the incentive to bless her heart and move on with my life.


Is secret santa a private trade?  Want to know how many people have gifted me things?  A bunch.  I thank them in private because...it's private.

Secret Santa has a discussion thread and a reveal thread.  That's because it's a public get together for the fun and enjoyment of all...not the private fun and enjoyment of one.  If it's all about getting something for some people and not sharing in the excitement or thanking the person who gifted them, then bless them.  They need the blessings more than I do.


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## Kristine Walker (Jul 24, 2014)

I have a cheap semi-smart phone (Android Straight Talk), and I have never been able to get pictures from it, to the laptop and to upload here. I do have photos posted, just not at MUT. If photos became an absolute requirement I would be forced to drop-out.

   I'm hoping my written descriptions didn't hurt anyone.  It hurts my heart to know that such kind and generous people have not been thanked or even acknowledged.


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## meaganola (Jul 24, 2014)

There's a *lot* going on in here, but I wanted to jump back a few pages and throw one thing out.  Something to keep in mind about attaching surveys to assignment PMs:  That would mean they would not be publicly viewable.  That has good and bad sides.


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## lovepink (Jul 24, 2014)

meaganola said:


> There's a *lot* going on in here, but I wanted to jump back a few pages and throw one thing out.  Something to keep in mind about attaching surveys to assignment PMs:  That would mean they would not be publicly viewable.  That has good and bad sides.


Wouldn't it be possible to have it in a document that you can copy then create your wish list?  As long as you save it before you submit it, would it not be saved?


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## NotTheMama (Jul 24, 2014)

Wow...just wow. I spent 10 minutes catching up on this.

I agree that some sort of acknowledging receipt of the gift needs to be a rule. I think the majority of people know that, but for the occasional person who can't figure out enough to say "thank you, gift was received" I do think they should not be allowed to participate in the future. It's common courtesy, period. There's no excuse for bad manners.

I know on the old forum pics were much easier, but I think most people have gotten the hang of it. I don't know that they should be an absolute requirement, but it is a nice touch. I for one loved looking at all the pictures.

I loved Secret Santa for nails last year and I hope to have it as an option again this year. I don't want to see it bogged down by a million rules, but something so courteous should be required. Although it makes me sad that we even have to have this discussion.


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## SaraP (Jul 25, 2014)

Photo's are a big stresser for me, I will spent whatever amount of time need to get something revealed. Even if it's just one and a description. I'm hoping for more, but sometimes my photos load, other times no go....


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## meaganola (Jul 25, 2014)

I don't think photos will *ever* be a requirement.  There are just too many problems with that.  I do recall reading somewhere that reveals or at least acknowledgements *will* be mandatory this year, but I'm not sure whether those will be required to be in public or if a private PM will be fine.

And something else to keep in mind, this time about participation:  So you want everyone to participate.  That seems like a good goal.  But what about shy people who freak out about posting?  A demand that they *must* post will keep them away from here.  You might think that's fine, but the problem is that this just creates a Secret Santa/Midsummer clique.  That is just about the *last* thing we want.  We want to *encourage* people to participate in whatever way they feel comfortable.  For some people, that's just watching from the sidelines and sending their gift.  I think the length of the summer swaps has had an effect on the expectation of participation in the discussion threads, but I don't think it's realistic to expect that in the future, especially once we get into the holidays.


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## Kelly Silva (Jul 25, 2014)

meaganola said:


> And something else to keep in mind, this time about participation:  So you want everyone to participate.  That seems like a good goal.  But what about shy people who freak out about posting?  A demand that they *must* post will keep them away from here.  You might think that's fine, but the problem is that this just creates a Secret Santa/Midsummer clique.  That is just about the *last* thing we want.  We want to *encourage* people to participate in whatever way they feel comfortable.  For some people, that's just watching from the sidelines and sending their gift.  I think the length of the summer swaps has had an effect on the expectation of participation in the discussion threads, but I don't think it's realistic to expect that in the future, especially once we get into the holidays.


My problem with this is people are required to have a certain amount of posts to sign up. They obviously aren't too shy to post at all. Now of course I don't think the answer is to make people post either, I'm just saying I don't think anyone who qualifies to sign up for this is too shy to post ever. In summation my thoughts on this topic:

1) Public reveal makes lots of people happy, whether it be photos or in writing. I couldn't say if it should be necessary, but maybe a list of "typical" things that happen during these swaps for newbies just signing up might be a nice way to let them know what others have done in the past (ex: links to the various threads, letting them know most make a wish list thread, explaining how reveals usually work). That way it's not necessary, but people will know expectations and probably be more encouraged to do these things.

2) A survey/wishlist I think is necessary, especially for those who don't post much. A thorough wish list from my person was kind of my savior for learning about my person who doesn't post much. I really don't know what I would have done without it. A lot of PMing that's for sure. Expanding on this, I think I actually liked the way it worked for Summerswap, with a survey getting personal info, that was then PM'd to buddies, and then most made a public wish list that they linked in their signature making it easy to find. I barely remember my survey I took when I first signed up, but I definitely think having a public wish list that I was able to edit as I bought or learned about new items was much handier than the survey that only had a few questions.


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## SaraP (Jul 25, 2014)

Good point about number of posts a person has to have to participate. Even if they choose to not answer a bunch of questions, they do post on the forum and should post at least a thanks/reveal.


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## jennm149 (Jul 25, 2014)

kawaiimeows said:


> My SS giftee didn't post pictures. That was such an inconsequential detail to me that I had to actually go back through the thread and look to see if that happened because I seriously did not remember. So no, it wasn't most important to me.


Speaking as one of those who got zero acknowledgement from her SeSa recipient, all I wanted was to know she got it. I really wasn't bothered by the lack of a reveal post. I was angry that I had to ask if it had been safely received.


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## Lolo22 (Jul 25, 2014)

I do not need my giftees to say thank you or gush or stroke my ego...at all. The reveals should be mandatory because they are the culmination of a month or 2 long experience and without them it's like watching a movie and turning it off before the end. One of my favorite reveals in the midsummer swap had no pictures. Posting that you got your box and who your Santa was should be required because we are all dying to know! I learned so much about everyone by seeing their reveals (captions, pics, whatevs). If they don't want to play along then maybe they should do a RAOK instead. I proposed an OPTIONAL weekly check in, are we saying that's unreasonable?

If participating on the site is a requirement for joining the swap, why wouldn't it be a requirement during the duration of the swap as well?


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## tacehtpuekam (Jul 25, 2014)

Lolo22 said:


> *If participating on the site is a requirement for joining the swap, why wouldn't it be a requirement during the duration of the swap as well?*


This. So much agreement.


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## kawaiimeows (Jul 25, 2014)

I think theres an obvious difference between someone who qualifies to participate and has a 150 posts and some one who qualifies and has 5000 posts. It doesn't make any sense to put the expectations you have of a 5000 post member on someone who clearly isn't that active but is a little active.

This shouldn't be about making it a clique of people who post all the time.


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## NotTheMama (Jul 25, 2014)

kawaiimeows said:


> I think theres an obvious difference between someone who qualifies to participate and has a 150 posts and some one who qualifies and has 5000 posts. It doesn't make any sense to put the expectations you have of a 5000 post member on someone who clearly isn't that active but is a little active.
> 
> This shouldn't be about making it a clique of people who post all the time.


I don't think that's what anyone is trying to say. I think what it boils down to is if you are going to participate, then you need to participate. I don't care if it's someone who has 50 posts or 5,000 posts. If they can get to the minimum number of posts required to participate and sign up, and then suddenly get too shy, too busy, too whatever to even acknowledge that the gift has arrived, then they shouldn't have participated to begin with, and shouldn't be allowed to participate in the future. (This of course takes into consideration emergencies and such that may come up.)

I don't even care if they do a public reveal or a simple, private PM to a mod or an elf, it should be acknowledged. We shouldn't have to see posts like "tracking shows the gift was delivered last week, I want to make sure it all arrived safely but haven't heard anything from my person."


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## kawaiimeows (Jul 25, 2014)

The point of Secret Santa is to exhange gifts. Not to entertain the userbase with small talk. And the pervailing comments are forcing people to participate in the chat threads, and that's what I'm responding to. People who don't thank their SS are an extreme that I think should be left up to Zadi's discretion.


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## jennm149 (Jul 25, 2014)

kawaiimeows said:


> *The point of Secret Santa is to exhange gifts*. Not to entertain the userbase with small talk. And the pervailing comments are forcing people to participate in the chat threads, and that's what I'm responding to. People who don't thank their SS are an extreme that I think should be left up to Zadi's discretion.


I think this comment gets to the heart of what the debate here is really about.  Is the point of Secret Santa to exchange gifts or is it something more? 

What I'm hearing is that a lot of people think it should be something more -- a social event, not just a gift exchange.

If a decision is made to go the more social route and require that people participate in the thread and/or post a reveal (or at least publicly acknowledge receipt and who their Secret Santa/FGM is), as long as that is clear in the rules, then those are the rules.  I would be sorry if someone didn't participate because they were uncomfortable with that -- but I'm also sorry that people don't participate because they feel they won't have a "good enough" gift (since there are people -- like me -- who supplement the $25 cash requirement with points and other bonuses) and for people who do participate, but are disappointed because their person isn't a part of the happy.

At this point, my question is this: who decides what the rules are going to be?  Zadi, the mods together, someone else?  How does the feedback from the community figure in to the decision?


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## DonnaD (Jul 25, 2014)

kawaiimeows said:


> I think theres an obvious difference between someone who qualifies to participate and has a 150 posts and some one who qualifies and has 5000 posts. It doesn't make any sense to put the expectations you have of a 5000 post member on someone who clearly isn't that active but is a little active.
> 
> This shouldn't be about making it a clique of people who post all the time.


Please stop trying to turn this into some kind of clique-ish thing.

Painfully shy people don't join forums and then make 100 posts so they can join in on a secret santa.  You keep making this about shy people.  Seriously??  The shy people I know apparently aren't anything like the shy people you know.

If you have posting requirements to join, it's no huge leap to ask people to post once a week in the discussions.  I'm not saying they need to be forced to have fun or post 320 times a day.  I'm saying ONE TIME A WEEK.  Stop trying to make that into us putting a gun to the head of a shy person.  It's not and it's entirely reasonable to expect people to minimally participate.

Posting a reveal does not mean you have to post pictures.  Posting pictures is a royal pita on this new forum and not everyone has a camera BUT everyone certainly can type a short post announcing who their ss is, thank them and if the spirit moves them, a short description of what they got or what they like.

But for real, please stop making these really simple, really do-able requests seem like terrorist acts against socially awkward people.  That's not what it's about and you know it.  It's not about making a clique and you know it.

All of this is about basic decency and respect.  It's about treating people kindly.  It's about having fun.  Nobody is forced to do anything and nobody is disappointed and nobody ends up feeling like crap.


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## kawaiimeows (Jul 25, 2014)

Donna, there are tons of lurkers here and lurkers are not an uncommon phenomenon on forums at all. Some people hit the amount if posts they need so they can participate. Like @@meaganola said some people just want to exchange a gift and watch from the sideline. I get that you're upset because your SS never thanked you and never came into the chat thread while we were all participating. I think the issue of thanking is something that needs to be hashed out but I don't see how this issue of "decency and respect" comes in to play for someone who doesn't want to post in the big chat threads. I don't feel like I'm owed the request of someone's presence in the chats just because they want to exchange gifts.

And I don't think the moderators should have to waste their time making sure every person who signs up participates at least once a week, the secret Santa groups get HUGE. Its petty and a huge waste of time when people are busy with school, work, holiday stuff. Etc.


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## meaganola (Jul 25, 2014)

Could we put the participation requirement discussion on hold for a few days? We're starting to go in circles on this, and things are starting to get close to personal attacks, so I think it's time to put this specific issue aside for now.


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## Dashery (Jul 25, 2014)

If this is a debate about whether Secret Santa is a gift exchange or a social event, then I have a comment to add.

Isn't it _both_?

Isn't it about sharing gifts, surprising someone with stuff we like as well as stuff with think they will like, and simultaneously getting to know the super sweet people of this site? It's a social gift exchange! ＼（＾▽＾）／

And some people might want to share that whole experience with the group, where as others might like to keep the gift exchange between just two people.

I don't know. Just a thought, I guess. (/ω＼)


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## kawaiiwoofs (Jul 25, 2014)

kawaiimeows said:


> Donna, there are tons of lurkers here and lurkers are not an uncommon phenomenon on forums at all. Some people hit the amount if posts they need so they can participate. Like @@meaganola said some people just want to exchange a gift and watch from the sideline. I get that you're upset because your SS never thanked you and never came into the chat thread while we were all participating. I think the issue of thanking is something that needs to be hashed out but I don't see how this issue of "decency and respect" comes in to play for someone who doesn't want to post in the big chat threads. I don't feel like I'm owed the request of someone's presence in the chats just because they want to exchange gifts.
> 
> And I don't think the moderators should have to waste their time making sure every person who signs up participates at least once a week, the secret Santa groups get HUGE. Its petty and a huge waste of time when people are busy with school, work, holiday stuff. Etc.


I agree with this 100%.


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## Dashery (Jul 25, 2014)

meaganola said:


> Could we put the participation requirement discussion on hold for a few days? We're starting to go in circles on this, and things are starting to get close to personal attacks, so I think it's time to put this specific issue aside for now.


Oops. I commented after this. Sorry. And, I second that suggestion!


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## tacehtpuekam (Jul 25, 2014)

Soooo what else did everyone like or not like?

I really liked the different threads for things! Made it super easy to find what I was looking for. The only thing I'd suggest for next time is a pinned thread with all the dates/timelines! I kept forgetting &amp; had to do a search in the big thread.


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## jennm149 (Jul 25, 2014)

allistra44 said:


> Soooo what else did everyone like or not like?
> 
> I really liked the different threads for things! Made it super easy to find what I was looking for. The only thing I'd suggest for next time is a pinned thread with all the dates/timelines! I kept forgetting &amp; had to do a search in the big thread.


Oh yes -- that would be a huge help!


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## kawaiimeows (Jul 25, 2014)

allistra44 said:


> Soooo what else did everyone like or not like?
> 
> I really liked the different threads for things! Made it super easy to find what I was looking for. The only thing I'd suggest for next time is a pinned thread with all the dates/timelines! I kept forgetting &amp; had to do a search in the big thread.


I think the new forum will make this a lot more feasible because we didn't have pinning as a feature for SS 2013.


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## DonnaD (Jul 25, 2014)

So to your way of thinking, screw the discussion, screw the reveal.  Let's save the mods a ton of work.  No discussion forum, no reveal forum.  Just a sign up forum.  Mods send your person's address and wish list to you and you mail out your present.  Boom! Done.

THAT WAS SO MUCH FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  WEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's a friggin' public forum.  People do this for fun.  You just single-handedly took something that WAS fun and turned it into a prostate exam.

I for real, do not even understand what you are arguing for.  You do understand that I can send a present to anyone here privately, right?  So the point of a formal secret santa exchange for you is the simple act of sending and receiving a present.  THE END.??

What are you arguing for?  You really think that a minimal participation requirement is just so, so horrible?  You really think that it's all about nothing more than giving something and getting something?  Is that how present exchanges go at Christmas at your house?

I'm freakin' baffled here.  I really am.


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## Dashery (Jul 25, 2014)

Definitely would love a thread with dates and times.

Although, I guess I should probably just write them down on a calendar next time.

Also, the roadies, elves, fairies, etc. are the best. Let's never get rid of them!


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## meaganola (Jul 25, 2014)

Yeah, @, I really wish I had bothered to do a FAQ thread with not only the dates but also tutorials. Spoilers, photos, wishlists, signatures, etc. By the time I figured out how to do screenshots for that, it was pretty much too late.


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## kawaiimeows (Jul 25, 2014)

Donna I'm done having this conversation, as @@meaganola said its just going in circles now. You had one bad apple. Its not going to destroy the foundations of the secret Santa group or cause all hell to break loose.


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## Dashery (Jul 25, 2014)

Yes, yes, yes to an FAQ thread!


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## DonnaD (Jul 25, 2014)

meaganola said:


> Could we put the participation requirement discussion on hold for a few days? We're starting to go in circles on this, and things are starting to get close to personal attacks, so I think it's time to put this specific issue aside for now.


Sure.  I'm getting really sick and tired of being made to feel like I am just a horrible person who is trying to hard-nose  poor, shy members into OH MY EFFIN GAWD!!! participating in a thread on a forum that they joined and have to participate in and post on in order to even be considered to join!  What a F*cking nightmare!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Obviously,  that's just too much work and too much pressure.

For real.  I'm done.  I don't think I'll be participating in further gift exchanges.  Now that I know it's only supposed to be about the physical act of exchanging presents and socialising isn't supposed to be part of it.


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## kawaiiwoofs (Jul 25, 2014)

Donna, I don't appreciate your tone. We will just have to agree to disagree on this. I'm sorry you've been disappointed with the past few exchanges. We, as organizers, cannot force anyone to meet anyone else's specific ideals.

Continuing on --

Things I liked: loved the survey for midsummer and I liked that we really instilled the idea of making an about me type page for the summerswappers. I think a FAQ would be helpful. I LOOOVED the "questions" we did in summer swap. At first though I think it was like "woah why is Jess asking a random ass question" but then the ladies got the hang of it  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

Things I would have liked to have seen differently: I know we don't have much control once addresses go out, but I prefer that people stick around-ish to the shipping date. In midsummer people kinda sent a touch earlier and that made me feel really behind in comparison even though I was right in the shipping period (yanno what I mean?).


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## Kelly Silva (Jul 25, 2014)

I liked the questions, the wish list threads people made and put into their signatures, and the two week shipping window I think is good. Good for some of us who ordered last minute things that were delayed or anything like that.

Could be changed: I personally thought the shopping time was a smidge long. Since summer doesn't have as many sales as the holidays, I found myself not picking out things until the end. There are pros and cons to this, but it was over a month for Summerswap? I think a month is good for the holidays, especially when sales are going to all be centered around Black Friday.


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## DonnaD (Jul 25, 2014)

usofjessamerica said:


> Donna, I don't appreciate your tone.


Yes, well, I don't appreciate her tone.  You're making it out like I'm some kind of Christmas fun nazi.  None of you seem to remember this is a SOCIAL forum and secret santa iis a SOCIAL OCCASION.

If 2 mods want to take that SOCIAL OCCASION and turn it into nothing more than a dry present exchange, then have at it.  I won't be attending your 'not really a party' party.

It floors me that mods on a social forum are discouraging socialising and apparently are going to see to it that the gift exchange becomes less social and more clinical.   Keep up the good work.


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## SaraP (Jul 25, 2014)

I was the nerd that didn't get the random question! Duh!! Sorry, usofjessamerica!

I love the questions and even when they were just about random stuff, I felt like I got to know my buddy and everyone else too. I'm sure there will be way more people for Secret Santa, so the idea of tags is awesome *and with the holiday craze it would a great way to keep in the loop. BUT not if that's way too much work. Although I'd be willing to help...


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## kawaiiwoofs (Jul 25, 2014)

@@SaraP water under the bridge girlfriend! I liked how people really got into asking their own questions too!


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## SaraP (Jul 25, 2014)

I felt like I could ask a simple question everyone could answer and not have to use a roadie for little things like that. Although having a roadie was awesome!


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## zadidoll (Jul 25, 2014)

jennm149 said:


> At this point, my question is this: who decides what the rules are going to be? Zadi, the mods together, someone else? How does the feedback from the community figure in to the decision?


I am the one who ultimately decides the rules. I have been watching the thread and will take all the comments and recommendations into consideration because to me a community only works when the leader(s) of the community listens to said community.

Some rules might change, some might not. The original intent of Secret Santa - before I became a member, moderator or CM - was for members to swap an item or two in order to get to know each other. When I took it over and created the SS area it became more of a box of gifts with a maximum threshold so more members could participate. It has evolved to where it currently stands and it may evolve even more. As I said the suggestions made are taken into consideration and the moderators and I are discussing certain changes, which at this time I will not discuss with the community until we figure things out more. Once we've discussed the situation I will make the final decisions as I have in the past. Obviously not everyone is going to be happy because as the old saying goes you can't please everyone all of the time however any changes made, if there are drastic changes, will be for the benefit of the community as a whole rather than a few individuals.



allistra44 said:


> Soooo what else did everyone like or not like?
> 
> I really liked the different threads for things! Made it super easy to find what I was looking for. The only thing I'd suggest for next time is a pinned thread with all the dates/timelines! I kept forgetting &amp; had to do a search in the big thread.


Now that we have the ability to pin posts - the old Huddler platform did not give us that option - that should be an easy thing to implement.

I will state one thing that I WILL be implementing this fall for Secret Santa - Secret Santas will be asked to use their forum name on the package or in a note so the giftee knows who it came by. While the package may say "Jane Smith" sent it to "Jill Jones" Jill may not know that Jane is really "Candygirl 205" on the forums. It'll make it easier for people to know who sent them the gift that way.


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## jennm149 (Jul 25, 2014)

meaganola said:


> Yeah, @, I really wish I had bothered to do a FAQ thread with not only the dates but also tutorials. Spoilers, photos, wishlists, signatures, etc. By the time I figured out how to do screenshots for that, it was pretty much too late.


This would be great! 

Along those lines, I wish you would make a separate post in the "How To" forum with your tutorial on using Photobucket.  I can't figure out how to keep a link back to that specific post, and I can see wanting to use it often until I have the process down.


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## meaganola (Jul 25, 2014)

@@jennm149 I'll put that on my to-do list! I don't know when I'll get to it, but it will be on the list.

ETA: It was actually already on my list along with posting wishlists, adding signatures, adding spoiler tags, and finding all posts from a specific person. What other tutorials should be on the list?


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## Kelli (Jul 25, 2014)

I really liked Babs and Jess throwing out questions to the group to get the conversations flowing and how that morphed into other participants asking general questions to the group as a whole. It was a fun way to get to know everyone and get more info from your partner.

I like people making getting to know you/wishlist threads and linking them in their signature.

Summerswap is my first time doing this and it's not over yet, but those are the two things that so far I have thought were the most helpful and fun.


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## trekkersangel (Jul 25, 2014)

I think my favorite part so far has been being a roadie/fairy.  I thought that was a great idea (we used elves for the last secret santa exchange) &amp; it really helped people out.  I got a kick out of asking people questions for other people.  

The random questions in the thread was great too.  It gave me an opportunity to not only learn about my swap buddy, but I got to know a lot of gals on here.  I really enjoyed that.


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## bonita22 (Jul 25, 2014)

I liked the separate threads, especially the thread with all the wish list and surveys. I really enjoyed reading everyone's surveys, so i really liked that they were public. During SS, all the survey questions got a bit hard to keep up with. Having participants fill out a survey at the beginning was a lot better. Since people are busy and surveys can take a while to complete, maybe we can make the survey due with in a week of assignments going out. 

The random questions were great, it helped with my shopping and it was very entertaining. Personally I think it adds to the fun of the whole experience. I also really liked the random stories people shared.  

I loved the Elves/Roadies/Fairies. It's a great way to get any unanswered questions asked and i know that it helps a lot. Especially if you get someone that might be busy or doesn't post as much. 

I also think a private acknowledgement is fine. However, at least to me, a public acknowledgment would be ideal even if its nothing more than "I got my gift! Thanks X." It helps the people who are keeping track of reveals.  Either way if it could be acknowledged as soon as possible that way the sender doesn't go crazy. Maybe within 48-72 hours?

ETA:

I know it's a lot of work for everyone involved especially the mods, so thanks for making it possible.


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## lovepink (Jul 25, 2014)

zadidoll said:


> I am the one who ultimately decides the rules. I have been watching the thread and will take all the comments and recommendations into consideration because to me a community only works when the leader(s) of the community listens to said community.
> 
> Some rules might change, some might not. The original intent of Secret Santa - before I became a member, moderator or CM - was for members to swap an item or two in order to get to know each other. When I took it over and created the SS area it became more of a box of gifts with a maximum threshold so more members could participate. It has evolved to where it currently stands and it may evolve even more. As I said the suggestions made are taken into consideration and the moderators and I are discussing certain changes, which at this time I will not discuss with the community until we figure things out more. Once we've discussed the situation I will make the final decisions as I have in the past. Obviously not everyone is going to be happy because as the old saying goes you can't please everyone all of the time however any changes made, if there are drastic changes, will be for the benefit of the community as a whole rather than a few individuals.
> 
> ...


The requirement to have your screen name was used in the Midsummer swap.  Can we adjust this to state your username has to be INSIDE the box (like on a card or something).

My legal name is not lovepink and I did not feel comfortable having to post my user name on a box that is being handled by various entities and people.

I put my real name on line 1, my screen name line 2, then my address, then city state and zip as I did not want to get in trouble for not following "the rules."  I also made sure to write my screen name under my real name on the card.


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## tacehtpuekam (Jul 25, 2014)

lovepink said:


> The requirement to have your screen name was used in the Midsummer swap.  Can we adjust this to state your username has to be INSIDE the box (like on a card or something).
> 
> My legal name is not lovepink and I did not feel comfortable having to post my user name on a box that is being handled by various entities and people.
> 
> I put my real name on line 1, my screen name line 2, then my address, then city state and zip as I did not want to get in trouble for not following "the rules."  I also made sure to write my screen name under my real name on the card.


LOL is it horrible that I helped coordinate this and didn't know that was a requirement?! My bad guys. 

I didn't put my username on the outside either, but it was on my note which was on the very top of the box. 

I'm not really sure I'd feel comfortable putting my username on the outside of the box either..especially with how picky my mail people can be. I use my dogs name sometimes when I make multiple accounts and I actually had an item returned to sender once because my mail lady didn't recognize the name &amp; thought it was incorrectly addressed!


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## lovepink (Jul 25, 2014)

allistra44 said:


> LOL is it horrible that I helped coordinate this and didn't know that was a requirement?! My bad guys.
> 
> I didn't put my username on the outside either, but it was on my note which was on the very top of the box.
> 
> I'm not really sure I'd feel comfortable putting my username on the outside of the box either..especially with how picky my mail people can be. I use my dogs name sometimes when I make multiple accounts and I actually had an item returned to sender once because my mail lady didn't recognize the name &amp; thought it was incorrectly addressed!


I put my note on the top of the box too!  So that way if they opened it could scan to the bottom find out who it was, then tear through the gifts!  I, too worried about it being rejected or sent back or something.


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## meaganola (Jul 25, 2014)

I think one of the reasons why there was a requirement to put the name on the outside was specific to Secret Santa:  A lot of people were saving their packages to open until a specific day.  They were not just not unwrapping the contents but the outside shipping boxes as well.  Depending on what you have going on, it's entirely possible that someone wouldn't even realize it was a MUT package, and they wouldn't report back that they had received their package.  How about a requirement that you either put your name or an easily-found and easily-removed gift card/envelope containing your secret MUT identity, either one on the outside of the package (or, hey, both, if you really feel like it)?  Then the information is on the outside of the package, so the recipient wouldn't have to open the package to know who it's from if they were saving it for gift-opening day, but the sender's information would be protected if they so desired.


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## lovepink (Jul 25, 2014)

meaganola said:


> I think one of the reasons why there was a requirement to put the name on the outside was specific to Secret Santa:  A lot of people were saving their packages to open until a specific day.  They were not just not unwrapping the contents but the outside shipping boxes as well.  Depending on what you have going on, it's entirely possible that someone wouldn't even realize it was a MUT package, and they wouldn't report back that they had received their package.  How about a requirement that you either put your name or an easily-found and easily-removed gift card/envelope containing your secret MUT identity, either one on the outside of the package (or, hey, both, if you really feel like it)?  Then the information is on the outside of the package, so the recipient wouldn't have to open the package to know who it's from if they were saving it for gift-opening day, but the sender's information would be protected if they so desired.


As long as putting it on the inside fulfills the requirement that is ok by me.

I for one find it hard to believe that people can get a package and not know where it came from.  I keep a list of all things I am expecting in the mail (trades, Sephora, Ulta, UPS etc) and even though it is the holidays and people are likely to get gifts I think if I got a gift from someone in a state like New Hampshire where I do not know a single person I would assume it would be the MUT holiday gift exchange.  

Would not have to consult with spouse on if it came from someone he knows because keeping track of family/friends etc falls into my department.

I could see how if people are in mulitple forums or exchanges it could be complicated.  Maybe you could put Jane Smith, MUT after your name so someone would know it was from Makeup talk.  And put that is the abbrieviation in the FAQ.  This way it looks like you have fancy credentials and is a secret code to other beauty lovers/participants!


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## zadidoll (Jul 27, 2014)

Thank you ladies for the suggestions on the usernames. So long as there is something on OR in the package identifying which MuT member the gift is from then that'll be fine. Either way works for me just so long as the gift recipient knows who it's from.


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## elizabethrose (Jul 27, 2014)

A note on usernames - as someone who had a ridiculously hard time shipping my box this time (USPS can really go take a hike.. they just decided my person didn't live at her house anymore..) I know that there are a lot of USPS postal workers who WILL NOT DELIVER boxes unless they are the same name on the mailbox. May seem ridiculous, but it's true.

I kind of believe that the box wasn't delivered the first time because it had my giftee's cats names on there too. Who knows. The address was right.. anyways. I guess what I'm saying is that legal names are kind of important on the outside of the box :/ And additional names make some USPS workers do weird junk.


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## Babs28 (Jul 27, 2014)

Another option instead of putting your username on the outside is putting "MuT Member" in the from under your name or in big letters on the side of the box you can put "MuT Member" or something like that.  This way no one's name is on the outside if they aren't comfortable with it but it will indicate that it's from a MuT member.


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## JC327 (Jul 28, 2014)

DonnaD said:


> So is shyness the reason people can't even be bothered to post a thank you reveal??
> 
> People put a lot into their gifts.  I think EVERYONE wants to see reveals.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear that! I would have definitely posted like a million pics if you had made me something.


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## marigoldsue (Jul 28, 2014)

I really wish more people would post pictures of themselves.  I know that we can't really "require" that, as many people would feel very uncomfortable.  But I found it kind of odd to be purchasing make-up products for someone that I had no idea what they looked like.  Would it be possible to give people who don't want a picture of themselves posted on the internet the OPTION of attaching a picture to their address information that goes to the organizers and then send it on to whoever gets their name?  Not only does it feel more personal to be able to put a face with a name, but it really can help us pick products that fit the recipient better.


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## Kelly Silva (Jul 28, 2014)

marigoldsue said:


> I really wish more people would post pictures of themselves.  I know that we can't really "require" that, as many people would feel very uncomfortable.  But I found it kind of odd to be purchasing make-up products for someone that I had no idea what they looked like.  Would it be possible to give people who don't want a picture of themselves posted on the internet the OPTION of attaching a picture to their address information that goes to the organizers and then send it on to whoever gets their name?  Not only does it feel more personal to be able to put a face with a name, but it really can help us pick products that fit the recipient better.


I didn't find it odd until you mentioned it, but maybe it would be a nice optional thing to add to the private survey.


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## tacehtpuekam (Jul 28, 2014)

I think a lot of people are probably uncomfortable with posting pictures (privacy concerns or other reasons), but maybe we could add a general description area to the survey? I know in my wishlist I made sure to include my foundation shade, hair color, eye color, etc.


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## kawaiiwoofs (Jul 28, 2014)

allistra44 said:


> I think a lot of people are probably uncomfortable with posting pictures (privacy concerns or other reasons), but maybe we could add a general description area to the survey? I know in my wishlist I made sure to include my foundation shade, hair color, eye color, etc.


i would love if that was part of the "official" survey! knowing those descriptors was really helpful when shopping for my peeps over the past few swaps. As much as it would be so easy to shop for other bold lip-loving, medium with yellow undertones, and dark dark brown hair girls, that may not always be the case!


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## lovepink (Jul 28, 2014)

allistra44 said:


> I think a lot of people are probably uncomfortable with posting pictures (privacy concerns or other reasons), but maybe we could add a general description area to the survey? I know in my wishlist I made sure to include my foundation shade, hair color, eye color, etc.


I did the same.  I think you can describe yourself in your wish list (I know the one for Midsummer Night did) but I would not feel comfortable sending a picture of myself to essentially a stranger.  I have all my privacy settings on my social media set to private.

I have been a member on this forum for 2.5 years and still have not shared a picture because I do not feel comfortable doing so.  It is a contradiction because I have meet people from here in real life and am friends with people here on social media, but I think this requirement could be satisfied in the survey.


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## meaganola (Jul 28, 2014)

I have to confess that I don't even like my family taking pictures of me. I wouldn't let my aunt take one of me for my entry in her phone's directory.


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## Lolo22 (Jul 28, 2014)

I think a survey question would be nice (if it's not already there?) and people can include whatever they want. Also, as far as I know there's no way to PM a picture unless it's a link to the site (which means everyone would be able to see it).


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## lovepink (Jul 28, 2014)

Lolo22 said:


> I think a survey question would be nice (if it's not already there?) and people can include whatever they want. Also, as far as I know there's no way to PM a picture unless it's a link to the site (which means everyone would be able to see it).


I think people (from what I gathered at least) that you would send it with the google doc that you complete.  but then 2 people see it (whoever sees all the google docs, who I assume is mod, then the person who has you).  I could be wrong.  heat and humidity and vacation in 3 days, brain fried!

And why is it you cannot put a picture in a PM?  It is so annoying when you want to show someone you are trading with a sample size or something and you put the pic in there, press send and it disappears!


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## DonnaD (Jul 28, 2014)

lovepink said:


> I think people (from what I gathered at least) that you would send it with the google doc that you complete.  but then 2 people see it (whoever sees all the google docs, who I assume is mod, then the person who has you).  I could be wrong.  heat and humidity and vacation in 3 days, brain fried!
> 
> And why is it you cannot put a picture in a PM?  It is so annoying when you want to show someone you are trading with a sample size or something and you put the pic in there, press send and it disappears!


I actually upload pictures to my website and then link them in pm's.  I don't see any good way to post pics in a pm.  It's a shame.


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## meaganola (Jul 28, 2014)

Weird.  My PM editor looks like like a regular page editor, complete with a section to attach files.  If I'm replying to a PM, I just click the Full Editor, and it takes me to that same regular editor with the image-attaching options.


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## DonnaD (Jul 28, 2014)

The only thing I get in either full or regular editor is the ability to paste a url in a box which will then show the picture in my pm.  I have zero ability to upload a pic straight into a pm.


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## yousoldtheworld (Jul 28, 2014)

Kristine Walker said:


> I have a cheap semi-smart phone (Android Straight Talk), and I have never been able to get pictures from it, to the laptop and to upload here. I do have photos posted, just not at MUT. If photos became an absolute requirement I would be forced to drop-out.
> 
> I'm hoping my written descriptions didn't hurt anyone.  It hurts my heart to know that such kind and generous people have not been thanked or even acknowledged.


(Late response, I'm catching up here!)

BUT, as your godmother, I totally get that posting pictures on here is a PITA and your reveal was just fine and dandy.  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

For me, the important thing here isn't necessarily a lengthy reveal (though I do agree that those are a lot of fun to read through/look at) it's acknowledging someone's effort.  While I don't know about making anything like that a mandatory rule, I think a simple "It arrived, thank you" is a reasonable expectation!


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## meaganola (Jul 28, 2014)

DonnaD said:


> The only thing I get in either full or regular editor is the ability to paste a url in a box which will then show the picture in my pm.  I have zero ability to upload a pic straight into a pm.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You don't see this at the bottom of the page?  Because that's on my PM editor screen.


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## DonnaD (Jul 28, 2014)

Only on regular forum posts.  It's not there in the pm area.


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## lovepink (Jul 28, 2014)

Nope not on mine either.  Must be some kind of Mod super power!



meaganola said:


> You don't see this at the bottom of the page?  Because that's on my PM editor screen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





DonnaD said:


> Only on regular forum posts.  It's not there in the pm area.


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## meaganola (Jul 28, 2014)

Oh, wow, what a weird and random mod superpower to have!


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## Dashery (Jul 28, 2014)

Ooh! Ooh! I figured out how to do it! Hold on. I'll take some screen shots and show how I did it. Be right back!


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## Dashery (Jul 28, 2014)

Okay. So here's how I got pictures into a pm.

So, you're in your blank message. Now, there's a little button that says "My Media".

When you click on that. You get this:

Okay, see those three tabs? Attachments, Gallery Albums, and Gallery Images. Any pictures in those tabs you can add to your pm.

So, let's say we click on the Attachments tab. You get something like this:

You can see all the pictures I've previously uploaded to threads and the pictures I tested this on.

Of course, how do you get a picture into this attachments tab?

I just went to a random thread and acted like I was going to make a new post. Click on "More Reply Options".

So now you're here. Attach / upload a photo like you would any other time. You don't have to actually add it to the post or anything. Here, I uploaded this little sheepy.

So then I went an abandoned that post. You won't need it anymore. You can just exit out. I went back to My Media Library (in the pm). If you were in the middle of the message when you decided to add a picture, you'll have to click on attachments to get it to show up. And then poof! There's my sheepy!

Now all you have to do is click on the image. A black bar will pop up, saying that it's been added. And then you can click finished in the bottom left-hand corner. 

Now, your message should look something like this:

I added some words, clicked preview, and here's what I had!

There ya go! I hope it helps!


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## kawaiisofoxy (Jul 28, 2014)

Thank you for that wonderful tutorial @@Dashery !  I love it!  Yay sheepy!


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## Dashery (Jul 29, 2014)

magicalmom said:


> Thank you for that wonderful tutorial @@Dashery !  I love it!  Yay sheepy!


Your welcome! It's a sheriff's duty to serve!  B)


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## Babs28 (Jul 29, 2014)

If you are using the latest version of Internet Explorer, you can have issues with quote/copy/paste/spoilers etc.  Try using a different browser and you may not have those issues.  There are a TON of reported compatibility issues with the latest IE version and websites.  So it may not be a random mod superpower, just a IE compatibility issue.


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## lovepink (Jul 29, 2014)

Babs28 said:


> If you are using the latest version of Internet Explorer, you can have issues with quote/copy/paste/spoilers etc.  Try using a different browser and you may not have those issues.  There are a TON of reported compatibility issues with the latest IE version and websites.  So it may not be a random mod superpower, just a IE compatibility issue.


Thank you but for me I use Safari.  I appreciate @@Dashery 's tutorial and will keep it in mind if I desperately need to post a picture but that is way too much work when I used to just be able to cut and paste!


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## DonnaD (Jul 29, 2014)

I use Chrome.


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## JC327 (Jul 30, 2014)

lovepink said:


> The requirement to have your screen name was used in the Midsummer swap.  Can we adjust this to state your username has to be INSIDE the box (like on a card or something).
> 
> My legal name is not lovepink and I did not feel comfortable having to post my user name on a box that is being handled by various entities and people.
> 
> I put my real name on line 1, my screen name line 2, then my address, then city state and zip as I did not want to get in trouble for not following "the rules."  I also made sure to write my screen name under my real name on the card.


I had no idea of this either, I honestly cant remember if i put my name on the outside. I know I did put it in the card I added inside.


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## JC327 (Jul 30, 2014)

marigoldsue said:


> I really wish more people would post pictures of themselves.  I know that we can't really "require" that, as many people would feel very uncomfortable.  But I found it kind of odd to be purchasing make-up products for someone that I had no idea what they looked like.  Would it be possible to give people who don't want a picture of themselves posted on the internet the OPTION of attaching a picture to their address information that goes to the organizers and then send it on to whoever gets their name?  Not only does it feel more personal to be able to put a face with a name, but it really can help us pick products that fit the recipient better.


Thats a great idea!


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## zadidoll (Jul 30, 2014)

Regarding PMs. The option to add a picture is not available in Fast Reply. You need to click on Full Editor in order to have the option to add a picture. You also should see it when composing a new PM. If you're unable to see the Attach File option then @@Director will need to fix the member tier.


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## Lolo22 (Jul 30, 2014)

zadidoll said:


> Regarding PMs. The option to add a picture is not available in Fast Reply. You need to click on Full Editor in order to have the option to add a picture. You also should see it when composing a new PM. If you're unable to see the Attach File option then @@Director will need to fix the member tier.


When I click the Use Full Editor to reply to an existing PM, I do not get the attach files option at the bottom of your screen cap.  The option to use the full editor in a new PM is not available either.


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## Geek (Jul 30, 2014)

Fixed.  Regular members can now upload images into PMs


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## tulosai (Aug 1, 2014)

meaganola said:


> What can be done if someone is an active chatter, signs up, and *then* stops participating? And what about people who do not respond to nudges from fairies/elves/mods? (This is not sarcastic or rhetorical. This is a real, genuine concern and struggle. I just don't know what the expected during-the-swap resolution is.)


So A LOT has been posted since this was, and I only read to halfway through page 9, but this is all too depressing to read more, so apologies if others have said what I was going to say. 

I share a lot of the general concerns expressed in this thread but I sort of want to cry reading some of the comments at this point, since I have disappeared for a few weeks now, and according to a lot of people, this would mean I am banned from the next swap for insufficient participation in this one.

I think SS should be fun for everyone.  And we need to figure out a way to avoid anyone wanting to cry or throw things.  This means both the people who are frustrated that their partner isn't posting, and it also means the people who get slammed unexpectedly and can't post.

My ideas:

Reveal requirement: I think a requirement of letting the board know you got your package is a good idea. But we need to bear in mind that (though it's rare) some people don't have smart phones or a digital camera and might find it hard to post pictures.  I know this is increasingly obsolete, but this was me last December.  I found a way to post pictures anyway but I had to borrow someone else's phone, and for one of my buddies I had to do this daily as her gift was super thoughtfully broken down into a 25 days of christmas extravaganza.  I was unable to post her last few gifts to me because I was travelling and unable to borrow a camera. I would hate to think that banned me from participating next time. So I'd vote for a requirement of one post acknowledging that YES you have the gift, and either a few photos OR a note saying you can't post photos now but everything is safe, thank you so much.

Post requirement: I think think the idea of a minimum of 50-100 posts IN THE PAST YEAR is a good one. I think 100 is better than 50 personally. I don't think you should also be required to post a specific number of times during the swap or if there is a requirement it should be minimal. Despite what some people here seem to think, stuff DOES happen and makes it hard for some of us to find 10 minutes to post. Stuff can happen even in the modern age where one is without internet access for a period of time.  It is also hard because some of us are just trying to play catch up reading the thread because of the people who post in it a TON, so we are wading through literally dozens of pages if we've been gone for a long weekend, and it's hard to jump in again before catching up somewhat because what you are saying by then is 50 topics ago. I think a compromise would be *making a survey a requirement to join*, and you have to fill it out before the sign up cut off date. Even if you make a certain number of posts in the thread a requirement,  some person is probably just going to post like 'yes' or 'no' as their responses in the thread, and their buddy is going to be the same amount upset as if they hadn't posted at all but they won't have violated the rules.

I think overall the tone of this thread has become very  negative on both sides and I think this is just depressing.  This is just supposed to be fun for everyone.


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## Babs28 (Aug 4, 2014)

tulosai said:


> So A LOT has been posted since this was, and I only read to halfway through page 9, but this is all too depressing to read more, so apologies if others have said what I was going to say.
> 
> I share a lot of the general concerns expressed in this thread but I sort of want to cry reading some of the comments at this point, since I have disappeared for a few weeks now, and according to a lot of people, this would mean I am banned from the next swap for insufficient participation in this one.
> 
> ...


I could not have said it better myself.  I know that you are a consistent poster and I am SO SORRY you feel like crying. It's not right.  This is supposed to be FUN!!!  Most of this thread is not FUN. I am sending my gift with the understanding that I may not here back from the person I sent it to.  I doubt it because I know who she is and she is a consistent poster. I would HOPE that they would acknowledge the gift to at least sat, I received it. BUT if I had received a person who didn't post, I would still send out a gift that I was PROUD to say, "Yep, that was me, I sent it." Would I be annoyed or a little upset? But I would keep it to myself.

If I wasn't "running" Summerswap, chances are you would have seen a lot less of me with work and moving but the Summerswap is my responsibly so I post as much as I can.  

I like @@tulosai's idea that a survey is a requirement to join.


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## zadidoll (Aug 4, 2014)

tulosai said:


> I think a compromise would be *making a survey a requirement to join*, and you have to fill it out before the sign up cut off date.


I actually like that idea... alot. This may be implemented this year. I'm getting ready (in September) to reveal the new rules and requirements. I'm going to be up front here and say I'm not going to make being an active member of MUT a strict requirement. If someone is great, if not that's fine. I rather shut Secret Santa down than allow it to become so exclusive that new members - who meet the minimum requirements - are not allowed to participate. That wasn't the intent of the original Secret Santa and I won't let it evolve to that. I might increase the post amounts from 50 to 75 though.

We'll see... I'll probably have a series of polls put up here in SS to see what people want so if you have a poll question that you want me to ask post below. It has to be a YES or NO question so keep that in mind.


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## kawaiisofoxy (Aug 5, 2014)

New Poll Question:

"Are you OK with receiving anti-aging skincare?"

I personally have issues with the chemicals in the anti-aging stuff.  They make my sensitive skin burn.  But, I feel weird giving it away like "Here you go you old wrinkly thing you!"  BUT, I know a lot of people on here love getting the samples because a lot of anti-aging stuff is expensive!  So this question would eliminate my "would my Santee welcome these samples or find them offensive?" obsessing.


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## Lolo22 (Aug 5, 2014)

magicalmom said:


> New Poll Question:
> 
> "Are you OK with receiving anti-aging skincare?"
> 
> I personally have issues with the chemicals in the anti-aging stuff. They make my sensitive skin burn. But, I feel weird giving it away like "Here you go you old wrinkly thing you!" BUT, I know a lot of people on here love getting the samples because a lot of anti-aging stuff is expensive! So this question would eliminate my "would my Santee welcome these samples or find them offensive?" obsessing.


Yes, great question to add! I would love getting it but feel offensive giving it without specific direction. Also, same sentiment about spot treatments/acne products.


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## SaraP (Aug 5, 2014)

I know a lot of people in their early 20s say they are starting early. I see that I think "I'm an idiot for waiting so long" haha


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## zadidoll (Aug 5, 2014)

Let me be more specific on the type of poll questions I'm going to ask or types I'm seeking to ask.

Things like anti-aging would be good for after a person signs up but the types of questions I'm looking to poll is more on the direction I want to take SS and/or the rules. But I do think the anti-aging one will be perfect for a "Get to know me" type of thread.


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## kawaiisofoxy (Aug 5, 2014)

Could we have some examples? I'm still confused, especially as to the yes/no question type.  

:unsure2: I promise I'm not usually this dense.


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## zadidoll (Aug 5, 2014)

Example, "Should we increase the minimum purchase amount from $25 to $30?"


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## kawaiisofoxy (Aug 5, 2014)

Thank you!

- Should we require a form of acknowledgment like a PM or a post in the reveal forum (no pics necessary, just a "got my package, thanks!") from Santee to Santa once the gift is received?

- Is a 4-week shopping window long enough?

- Is a 2-week shipping window long enough?


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## tulosai (Aug 5, 2014)

I think we should also ask 'would a one week sign up window be better than two weeks?'


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## jennm149 (Aug 5, 2014)

magicalmom said:


> Thank you!
> 
> - Should we require a form of acknowledgment like a PM or a post in the reveal forum (no pics necessary, just a "got my package, thanks!") from Santee to Santa once the gift is received?
> 
> ...


If it's not too much trouble, I'd break the first question up into two:

-  Should some acknowledgement from Santee to Santa (private or public) be required?

-  Should some public acknowledgement in the reveal thread (no pictures necessary) be required?

One other thought I had relates to the "recency" of the minimum required posts.  Is there an easy way for moderators to tell how many posts someone has made during a certain date range?  If not, than never mind.  But if so, I'd suggest that we ask:

-  Should swap participants be required to have made 25 posts in the 3 months before the sign-up deadline, in addition to meeting the other overall posting and length of membership requirements?


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## tacehtpuekam (Aug 6, 2014)

jennm149 said:


> One other thought I had relates to the "recency" of the minimum required posts.  Is there an easy way for moderators to tell how many posts someone has made during a certain date range?


Actually wouldn't be difficult to do this at all! (Maybe a little time consuming depending on how many participants there are, but I'd be happy to do it. I love projects!)

Basically we'd just have to go to 'my content' on the person's profile and look at the posts. There are 25 posts per page, so if we were looking for 25 posts in the last 3 months we'd just have to scroll to the bottom &amp; look at the date on that post. Or if we were doing 50 posts, scroll to the bottom of page 2. Etc, etc.  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## kawaiisofoxy (Aug 6, 2014)

GENIUS.  @ is a genius.  That is all.


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## angienharry (Aug 11, 2014)

Kristine Walker said:


> I have a cheap semi-smart phone (Android Straight Talk), and I have never been able to get pictures from it, to the laptop and to upload here. I do have photos posted, just not at MUT. If photos became an absolute requirement I would be forced to drop-out.
> 
> I'm hoping my written descriptions didn't hurt anyone. It hurts my heart to know that such kind and generous people have not been thanked or even acknowledged.


As your SS gifter I didn't feel upset at all that you didn't take photos. I honestly didn't remember you didn't. Words can paint a vivid picture and knowing you received the gift and that you enjoyed it is good for me!


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## angienharry (Aug 11, 2014)

Ok. I'm finally caught up on this thread. I hadn't looked at this one in weeks!

I agree with the mandatory survey before being allowed to join, I have been very lucky to get very active giftees in both of my experiences and I honestly love these and am sure we can come together and have another successful SS.

A big thanks to the mods...I'm sure I have no idea how much work it is to get something like this to run smoothly-but it's great fun, so THANKS!


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## Kristine Walker (Aug 11, 2014)

@@angienharry and @@yousoldtheworld , thank you both so much! It would have broken my heart if I had left you feeling slighted. I'm glad my written descriptions were enough.

  I have had such fun with my Wizard of Oz Cookbook and the Glinda palette!


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## nolongerhere1723 (Aug 16, 2014)

Hi all

I'm nervous to be posting this because I have never participated in secret santa or summer swap or any of those things.. But I've really enjoyed following along on the threads, and I thought it might be interesting for you guys to hear a perspective from a newer member who hopes to participate in the winter.

For all intents and purposes, you guys would probably consider me a pain to shop for. I don't participate a ton, and when I do, it tends to be in the subs or no-buy threads. I'm not super comfortable just chiming in with my opinion randomly, so when I do post, it tends to be because I have something substantial to share. If there was a minimum post requirement in a certain period, I'd worry that my number of inane, not really contributing much to the conversation would go up, just to make sure I'm hitting it. I read the forums a lot but never chime in with a "me too!" or "great haul!" etc. because I don't think they add anything to the conversation. Especially now with "liking" posts, if I like something, I just click the button. 

I'm not going to lie, watching these threads unravel, there is a very clique-ish vibe. I think the FGC one was particularly bad because you had to had participated in the winter SS, so obviously it was all older members. And I know you guys don't intend to be clique-ish AT ALL, but for someone who is a bit more introverted and awkward like me, it can be tricky to try to figure out when to jump in on the conversation. You guys all know each other so well that it can feel a little like the uninvited girl at a party standing on the edge of a circle trying to laugh along with an inside joke. I didn't follow the summer swap threads as much but really liked the questions because that helped everyone jump in.

I guess most of what I wanted to say that just because people don't participate in chat threads or have hundreds/thousands of posts doesn't mean they wouldn't really enjoy the SS process or don't participate in MUT. I am on the forums all the time reading, but I just don't always feel like I have something to say. That's just me. And it would feel kind of crappy if people that post "great box!" 10 times on the same thread got to participate and I didn't. 

I get that this might make me harder/less fun to buy for, but that's the purpose of the survey right? I'd just encourage you to keep the needs/nerves/concerns of newer and shyer users in mind. You guys are a tight knit group! If you just want to exchange gifts with your friends, then you definitely should do that and then bully for me, and that's fine! But I think the idea is to incorporate newer users and open it up to the community at large, and I'm not sure adding these different rules would accomplish that.


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## zadidoll (Aug 16, 2014)

The whole "clique" topic has been brought up by moderators to me as well. When I took over Secret Santa it was a way people to get to know each other since MUT at the time was filled with lots of members who had been around for a long time (many are no longer here) but really didn't know each other. It was also a place to give people a safe place to swap since I've seen (and participated) in Secret Santa exchanges on other sites. I don't want to turn Secret Santa into an event that prohibits or restricts newer or even shy members from posting. This is why I'm pretty sure I'm not going to change the rules to include a "must be active" requirement. The more I think about it and the more I think that's just a bad idea. So long as the person acknowledges the gift has been received - either to me, another mod who is helping me or in charge of the event and to the Secret Santa that's fine.

Last year there were issues with a couple of Secret Santas - including from one who is now banned from the site. In one case the items sent were clearly used items that came from a smoker's home. On top of it she sent the gift AFTER the Secret Santa deadline. There were a few other bad instances but that one is the one that still stands out to me because the person flat out lied to me multiple times. She eventually made off with a circular swap box which forced me to ban her account due to a swap theft.

With October just a few weeks away I'll have a more formal list of rules up. I think we'll soon have the poll questions up to see what rules we're modifying or adding/removing this year. By September I think.


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## kawaiiwoofs (Aug 16, 2014)

@ - I agree with your entire post. Thank you for sharing!


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## DonnaD (Aug 16, 2014)

@  I'm sorry but I truly do not understand what about it would be fun for you.  Regardless of a survey, people want to know who they're gifting and they get incredibly frustrated when that's not possible.  Knowing that you'd make it difficult and not fun, you'd still do it anyway?  I find that just plain odd.

PS:  I don't have a clique here on mut and I really can't say I've ever really noticed exclusionary behaviour...which is what cliques do.


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## tulosai (Aug 16, 2014)

DonnaD, I really like you.  Please know that I do respect you GREATLY and think you are one of the most generous members on here, and that what I say next I say as respectfully as possible.

Your ideas on this simply do not represent that of all of Makeup talk or, I certainly hope, of a majority of members.  In fact, I think your opinion is an extreme minority, at least to the degree to which you hold it.

I think you had a genuinely horrific experience in December with your nails Santee and I am beyond sorry about that.  I was appalled at how she treated you. I am also sorry that your more recent Santee did not meet your expectations.

However, your expectations are just that- yours- and they are yours to deal with.  Of my 3 Santees so far, only one was a regular poster.  I will admit I found it easier to shop for her than for the other 2, and was more confident in my gift to her. However, I genuinely enjoyed shopping for all 3 of my santees and felt no anger or bitterness that they did not post more.  I do not think they made it less fun for me.  I also do not think it is their responsibility to make it fun for me. Instead, I view it as MY responsibility to do my best to make the experience good for them and make their gift the best I can make it.

I think we all need to keep in mind that everyone has different personalities and also different circumstances.  Something that you have brought up A LOT is that everyone must  have 5 minutes to post something.  Some people would rather spend that time reading and keeping up with their Santee.  Also, (and again, respectfully) I think it is a fact based on some of what you've said about your life that you are lucky enough to have considerably more free time than some of us do.  I think if you saw my schedule and what I deal with on a day to day basis just in terms of where I need to be and for how long (as just a start, it is a VERY GOOD day if I only work from 8 am till 7 pm, and that is not my only obligation on my time, to say nothing of the personal obligations to other people I have) you would be surprised. Some days or weeks I can and do post from work.  Other weeks, if it is very busy, I just cannot. I do not mean this to say anything good or bad about either your or my situation, or to be like OMG PITY ME I am soooo busy, but it is just a fact.

As for there not being cliques, I feel they definitely do exist.  Certain members here have a downright following and follow one another.  I don't let it bother me but it is just a fact. I don't think these people are intentional about it (and some of them would be shocked that I think of them this way) but they do exist. If you are lucky enough not to see it I think that's great.

I really hope that my tone is okay, because again, I greatly do respect you.  But I really think your anger toward people who in your view aren't making it 'fun' enough for their Santa according to you is out of control. Some of your comments earlier on this thread almost brought me to tears.


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## DonnaD (Aug 16, 2014)

@@tulosai  You're fine and I really do understand your points.  All of them.  To me the whole thing is like saying you want to join the softball team but you don't like pitching so you shouldn't have too.

And to clarify ONE MORE TIME...I am not saying that people be asked to do anything more than post onc a week on the thread and post a reveal with or without pictures.  THAT"S IT.  I think people have gotten it in their heads that I want forced participation and that's not what I'm saying.  You have to have a certain post count to participate so posting is a requirement and nobody is belly-aching about that.  Posting once a week for 4-8 weeks isn't twisting arms and breaking kneecaps.  It's asking for some courtesy and participation.  I can't see what about that is so monstrous.


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## SaraP (Aug 16, 2014)

hsalt said:


> Hi all
> 
> I'm nervous to be posting this because I have never participated in secret santa or summer swap or any of those things.. But I've really enjoyed following along on the threads, and I thought it might be interesting for you guys to hear a perspective from a newer member who hopes to participate in the winter.
> 
> ...


I felt this way when I first started posting, after months and months of lurking. Once I jumped in a started posting I felt like everyone was really friendly and accepting. Sometimes I have info to share or sometime I just really like something someone posted and make a unnecessary "Oh pretty" comment. I try to keep in under control though, hehe.

I just started birchbox and when I post there I sometimes feel outside the group, but it's not because of cliques, but they all have a wealth of info (which I do not) and also because many of the people in the thread "know" each other from much time spent chatting.

*Also please join the xmas swap!!!

I guess I felt like I got to know a lot of the people because of the swap and that meant more to me then the gifts, although the gifts made it extra fun.


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## DonnaD (Aug 16, 2014)

sarap said:


> I guess I felt like I got to know a lot of the people because of the swap and that meant more to me then the gifts, although the gifts made it extra fun.


And that's exactly what multiple people (including @zadidoll) have said was the whole point of ss to begin with.   And it's where my frustration an anger comes into play most because they keep saying it but then say participation should be optional...which is a total contradiction.

I know I come on strong.  I think I read nastier than I actually am and angrier than I actually feel.  I got really angry over being made to feel like I was being an unreasonable b*tch and a bully when the only thing I was trying to say is that the whole thing is supposed to be about bonding and getting to know each other and if people are too shy or too busy to participate, then they're defeating the entire purpose of the exchange....to get to know each other!!!

It frustrates the crap out of me when people speak out two sides of their heads.  It's either social and about getting to know each other or it's not.  You cannot get to know someone who doesn't participate.  That's the long and short of it.  I just want to know what it's really about if participation isn't expected.


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## kawaiimeows (Aug 16, 2014)

Can we please stop acting like everyone is the same and everyone has the same priorities, interests, and personalities. Not everyone can just "jump right in" and make friends the same way. Not everyone joins SS for the same exact reason. Not everyone's definition of "fun" is the same. Not everyone treats SS the same exact way. Secret Santa is more than one thing to everyone, just as Zadi said it's both a *social function* and a _*swapping function.*_

Some people just want a safe place to swap, and MUT has a good reputation for that. And guess what? That's ok.


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## kawaiiwoofs (Aug 16, 2014)

DonnaD said:


> @ I'm sorry but I truly do not understand what about it would be fun for you. Regardless of a survey, people want to know who they're gifting and they get incredibly frustrated when that's not possible. Knowing that you'd make it difficult and not fun, you'd still do it anyway? I find that just plain odd.
> 
> PS: I don't have a clique here on mut and I really can't say I've ever really noticed exclusionary behaviour...which is what cliques do.


I think there's lots of ways this can be fun for a member like @. I can see how the fun can just come by simply following along. If I had a rare but thoughtful poster, as @ makes her self out to be, I personally would find that enjoyable. Between the survey, those 50-100 or whatever posts (lol compared to my what? 2k+ yikes), I think I can take a lot from that. I'd rather see 50-100 thoughtful posts than 2000 "me too!" Or "OMG cute!" We can't ask everyone to make thoughtful posts all the time. And she's right, with the "like" feature, continuing to *not* post is easier.


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## jocedun (Aug 16, 2014)

Hi all, I've just stumbled into this thread and I've taken an ungodly amount of time to read from beginning to end. I think @hsalt did an amazing job (2 weeks ago) describing her feelings as a newbie looking in, and I want to echo some of her sentiments.

 
Firstly, I really enjoyed the Summerswap, which is the only swap I've participated in. Things I liked: lots of time to shop and stalk, helpful roadies, great/concise/thorough survey, separation of threads, and great discussion happening in the threads.
 
However, there were also some things that didn't work so well for me. Due to being busy and going on a 2-week vacation in early June, I missed the first 2 weeks of the discussion thread. Basically, I signed up, went on vacation, and came back to 60+ pages in the discussion thread. Having never done a swap like this, I felt like I might have missed a TON and I was overwhelmed. When I e-mailed for help because I didn't know 1) if surveys had been sent out, 2) if addresses had been sent out, 3) if we were going to be required to get something local/something handmade, 4) were public wishlists required? or 5) if anything really important had happened in those 60+ pages, I received a frustrated response from a moderator. Eventually, someone did send my buddy's swap answers and I appreciated that a lot, but I also felt very embarrassed and stupid for having to ask. I genuinely hope that this was a fluke/bad timing and that I was the only one to feel this way, because it could have been discouraging to others. 
 
At this time, the forum had just switched over, I had no idea how to view my buddy's posts, and I hadn't received her survey answers, so I felt really in the dark and intimidated. I don't consider myself to be super shy, but I really had a hard time just jumping into the discussion thread after that. I felt like the 3rd grader who joins class half-way in - I was out of the loop and didn't really know anyone. That whole experience honestly scared me away from participating too much in the discussion thread. I wish I had forced myself to participate more because it would have helped my swap buddy, but I didn't, and that's that. With my example, I really don't think it is fair to force discussion participation. Introverts like myself get intimidated easily. A good thorough survey should be enough to get to know someone, as long as said survey is distributed properly.
 
Nonetheless, I would love another opportunity to jump discussion threads, especially if there are related guiding questions. I'm good at talking when there are guiding questions. So, that's my end point - if we want to get as many people involved as possible without mandating it, a Summerswap Discussion-esque thread with lots of engaging questions is great! And if moderators/organizers have important announcements (like "We won't be sending out surveys until much later"), then those should not be posted within the midst of otherwise unimportant chit chat. Then people won't feel out of the loop, but they also won't feel pressured to be super active in the chit chat thread.
 
Secondly, this swap made me realize that I am not very good at sharing my personal life/interests in the way that others do, and I don't amass as many posts as others. I check this website a lot more often than my post count might indicate because I just don't post about myself very often. I'm a minimalist and I try not to be a self-talker, which probably made me harder to shop for. With hindsight, I have seen posts by my buddy saying that I was difficult to shop for and she didn't know where to start, etc. I honestly didn't think I'd be that difficult. She ended up doing an amazing job, but I hate thinking she was miserable. 
 
I guess my point is: please don't implement a strict 50-100 posts per 3-6 months or something, because I don't want to be pressured to post that much. I like posting on this site, but usually I'm not posting about myself or my likes/dislikes anyway. In the same vein, I don't want my buddy to be frustrated that they don't know anything about me, so* I think the thorough survey is very important*. Like I mentioned, I am okay talking about myself when there are guiding questions, but otherwise I am insecure. I assume there are other members like me.

 
Lastly, I want to say why I decided to participate and will participate again: 1) I love shopping for people, especially when it comes to make-up, and there is honestly no one in my personal life who enjoys make-up the way the MUT community does - I enjoy being able to give someone a gift they will love! 2) I see it as a social activity, but not because I want to get to know EVERY member of the swap... instead, I've gotten to know a few people (mainly my recipient and my giftee). Even just one new forum buddy is good enough for me. I don't think inactivity by a few participants will ruin the fun for everyone else. I sure hope my inactivity didn't ruin someone's fun. 
 
Edit: Sorry - this is so long. Tried to do some trimming.


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## DonnaD (Aug 16, 2014)

jocedun said:


> please don't implement a strict 50-100 posts per 3-6 months


The reason they do that is more for reliability and longevity.  Anyone can come on the board and have 10 posts, sign up for a swap and never send something to their person.  If you don't post, not only does nobody know who you are but they have no way of knowing if you could be trusted.


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## jocedun (Aug 16, 2014)

DonnaD said:


> The reason they do that is more for reliability and longevity.  Anyone can come on the board and have 10 posts, sign up for a swap and never send something to their person.  If you don't post, not only does nobody know who you are but they have no way of knowing if you could be trusted.


Oh, I definitely understand the rationale behind a minimum post count. I think that's a perfectly reasonable expectation that participants have at least 50 (or is it more?) total posts.

However, I don't think frequency should be a factor (# posts over x amount of time). Quality over quantity. For example, I might only have 10-15 posts in the last 3 months (I actually have no idea - I don't keep track), but I have proven myself to be a reliable, long-term member in other ways (trading, being a consistent website user, liking posts, etc).


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## kawaiimeows (Aug 16, 2014)

jocedun said:


> Oh, I definitely understand the rationale behind a minimum post count. I think that's a perfectly reasonable expectation that participants have at least 50 (or is it more?) total posts.
> 
> However, I don't think frequency should be a factor (# posts over x amount of time). Quality over quantity. For example, I might only have 10-15 posts in the last 3 months (I actually have no idea - I don't keep track), but I have proven myself to be a reliable, long-term member in other ways (trading, being a consistent website user, liking posts, etc).


I think there's way too many ways of communicating/expressing ones self on MUT, especially with the new forum switch, to make it posts per period, a minimum post count makes more sense to me because you can be a long term member, yet have something come up and not be super active for a few months, and it still allows new members a notice of some acceptable post count to attain.


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## kawaiiwoofs (Aug 16, 2014)

jocedun said:


> However, there were also some things that didn't work so well for me. Due to being busy and going on a 2-week vacation in early June, I missed the first 2 weeks of the discussion thread. Basically, I signed up, went on vacation, and came back to 60+ pages in the discussion thread. Having never done a swap like this, I felt like I might have missed a TON and I was overwhelmed. When I e-mailed for help because I didn't know 1) if surveys had been sent out, 2) if addresses had been sent out, 3) if we were going to be required to get something local/something handmade, 4) were public wishlists required? or 5) if anything really important had happened in those 60+ pages, I received a frustrated response from a moderator. Eventually, someone did send my buddy's swap answers and I appreciated that a lot, but I also felt very embarrassed and stupid for having to ask. I genuinely hope that this was a fluke/bad timing and that I was the only one to feel this way, because it could have been discouraging to others.
> 
> At this time, the forum had just switched over, I had no idea how to view my buddy's posts, and I hadn't received her survey answers, so I felt really in the dark and intimidated. I don't consider myself to be super shy, but I really had a hard time just jumping into the discussion thread after that. I felt like the 3rd grader who joins class half-way in - I was out of the loop and didn't really know anyone. That whole experience honestly scared me away from participating too much in the discussion thread. I wish I had forced myself to participate more because it would have helped my swap buddy, but I didn't, and that's that. With my example, I really don't think it is fair to force discussion participation. Introverts like myself get intimidated easily. A good thorough survey should be enough to get to know someone, as long as said survey is distributed properly.
> 
> Nonetheless, I would love another opportunity to jump discussion threads, especially if there are related guiding questions. I'm good at talking when there are guiding questions. So, that's my end point - if we want to get as many people involved as possible without mandating it, a Summerswap Discussion-esque thread with lots of engaging questions is great! And if moderators/organizers have important announcements (like "We won't be sending out surveys until much later"), then those should not be posted within the midst of otherwise unimportant chit chat. Then people won't feel out of the loop, but they also won't feel pressured to be super active in the chit chat thread.


You're right - when you're gone for a bit and the thread moves quickly, it's easy to get lost and feel intimidated to jump in. I think you bring up excellent points.

We did make announcements that someone who is gone for some time might lose in the mix - like address info and survey announcements.

I think the frustrating part on my end, and @@Babs28 can jump in here too, was that we had multiple users who asked us to "catch them up". Not necessarily JUST the announcements which are important to be caught up on of course! But we had MULTIPLE requests to "catch them up" on anything their BUDDY did/said over the past few weeks or whenever. I think that kind of request would sting any mod a bit since while we are watching the thread, we can't necessarily keep tabs on every single member and have a ready made summary to catch someone up on the happenings around MUT by a specific person (especially since we were running this swap in the middle of me finishing up my thesis and babs' work getting hectic beyond control/prediction). I'm sorry you got a terse response by a mod but those requests were something we were perplexed by.

I think somewhere at the gate, we should have a tutorial on how to "find content" to avoid this issue.


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## BSquared (Aug 16, 2014)

An idea: maybe to make it easier, any major "announcements" ie- when addresses are going out, updates on surveys etc could be edited into the first post to make it easy for people to see/find? Just throwing it out!

Edit: and by survey info I mean "surveys will go out on xx date, not here's where to find your buddy's survey"


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## Babs28 (Aug 16, 2014)

usofjessamerica said:


> You're right - when you're gone for a bit and the thread moves quickly, it's easy to get lost and feel intimidated to jump in. I think you bring up excellent points.
> 
> We did make announcements that someone who is gone for some time might lose in the mix - like address info and survey announcements.
> 
> ...


@ is right, we were both perplexed at how "we had MULTIPLE requests to "catch them up" on anything their BUDDY did/said over the past few weeks or whenever". Some of those weren't even requests, they were DEMANDS (not very nice) and people would outright say they haven't been active at all in that thread and probably wouldn't be, since they were very busy.  I get people are busy, believe me.  There were weeks I worked until 11 or 12 at night and then moved onto my Summerswap responsibilities.  But those responsibilities do NOT include updating people on their Swap Buddies (unless there is an issue).  If you know that you are going to be too busy to even read the threads then you shouldn't sign up. 

Aside from that, we had a GREAT group of Roadies who were super helpful that could be contacted.

At one point, Jess and I were SOO frustrated and felt so "battered" that we both couldn't wait for Summerswap to be over!!


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## valeried44 (Aug 16, 2014)

I'll chime in here as well.  I know I'm not a super-poster.  I, like @@jocedun, find it hard to talk about myself.  Often times by the time I see something posted, there have been other people that have chimed in - my thought = what can I say that hasn't been said already?  I know this about myself and I did appreciate the guided questions in the SummerSwap thread and tried to answer as many as I could and to put out a fairly detailed list for the sake of my swap buddy.

On the other hand, my recipient was practically non-existent on the thread (except to say she was in and to post her reveal) and hadn't made out a "wish" list, so  when I found out we weren't getting the signup survey answers, I sent in a roadie to ask a few questions. It wasn't a big deal to me (really), but I do think that completing a list should be a pre-requisite to signing up/being accepted to the swap.  At least that gives some ideas for the person creating the gift if their recipient elects not to participate in the thread.  

Realistically, I don't see how requiring someone to participate in the thread could be easily managed or enforced.  Though, I do agree that participation does make it a more enjoyable experience for everyone, but there are many people who participate in these swaps and just as many levels of comfort in and schedule availability for participation.  

I'm sorry that @@Babs28 and @ had a bad experience with the SummerSwap.  I think you ladies did a fabulous job!  It sounds like some newer members participating and a brand new forum did not mix well together.  But it also sounds like there have been things learned and there are lots of ideas floating around to help things go more smoothly with Secret Santa 2014.  

I figure, whatever rules and expectations are ultimately decided for Secret Santa, I can determine my level of comfort with those and decide whether or not I choose to participate.  (But, really, I'm pretty easy to please - so unless I don't meet a qualification - I'm in  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />)


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## msambrosia (Aug 16, 2014)

I just found this thread today, but I think that @@jocedun and @_hsalt both made some great points. As someone who is painfully shy and socially awkward, forums like this one are incredibly hard for me to navigate. I'm just not the type of person that can jump into a conversation at random...unless I feel very strongly about what I have to say (which is the only reason I am writing here now). 

I participated in the Summerswap and really enjoyed it. I liked reading through the discussion thread each day and tried to jump in when I could, which admittedly was not a lot. I knew before I signed up that I'm not the type of person that would be making hundreds of posts during the swap, so I tried to be very thorough to help out the person that got my name. I made a wish list specifically for the swap, I have links to my blog and social media in my signature, and I sent a roadie a couple of other wish list links when requested. The reveal thread brought lots of smiles and I really loved seeing the gifts that everyone received. Sure, I wasn't the most involved participant, but I enjoyed it so much. I don't think it's fair to assume that just because someone isn't making tons of posts during a swap, then they aren't having fun or don't care about the swap. I lurked and read through each swap thread daily and liked tons of posts; I just didn't feel the urge to comment most of the time. I did post a lengthy reveal when I received my gift because I was extremely grateful. 

Reading some of the comments in this thread was a bit upsetting because it gives the impression that someone like me would be going out of their way to make things difficult. That couldn't be further from the truth. It's not like I would purposely not be commenting to make things difficult. 

I don't like the idea of x numbers of posts over a certain amount of time because I would likely be excluded, even though I just finished participating in a swap. Like @@jocedun, I'm on this site every day, reading through and liking posts at random. I just don't comment a lot. 

I think that a survey or wish list prior to sign-up is a great idea. This should ensure that whoever gets someone like me would at least have something to go on in order to purchase a gift.


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## Babs28 (Aug 16, 2014)

Please don't misunderstand my post as saying people need to be required to post, that isn't what I meant at all. What I meant is that if you are knowingly  too busy to keep up with your "person" for the entire length of the event then perhaps participating in something like this isn't the best way to swap or get to know people. 

There were people who posted very little but brought a lot of useful information into the discussions and there were some who posted all the time and brought the same amount of information. Everyone made the discussion thread and then the reveal thread fun.  Although, we did, unintentionally, lose people to the MUT NEST once it opened.


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## lovepink (Aug 16, 2014)

Ok I wanted to post some thoughts/ideas I have had over the past few days as the posts people have been posting have been thought provoking for me.

I participated in the Secret Santa in 2012 the year I joined MUT.  That year we had "wish lists" but it was pretty much go out and buy $25 worth of stuff and mail it.  There was not really a discussion thread and there was a reveal thred but not like what there is now.

I also participated in Secret Santa 2013.  While the person I got did not post a lot, she had a trade thread so I had something to go off of.  I have to own the fact I could have sent more stuff but I was insecure in my selections that what if I sent her blush and she hates it?  This is why I think having the surveys helps so much.

An important thing to remember about the Secret Santa/summer swap is it is the members that make the group what it is.  In the 2 years I have participated the idea, concept, threads, support and gifts have evolved and that is because of the members who participated.

I think keeping to the requirements there have been for Secret santa must be a member for x long and have x posts, plus the survey will keep it fun for all.  And the mandatory post or PM of hey I got my gift.   I believe most of the ladies on the forum are kind, generous and want to make it fun for everyone.  of course there will be the random person/people who will do untoward things but I think those people are the exception, not the rule.

I want Secret Santa to be fun for all.  We all have different thoughts and opinons and that is ok and what makes makeup talk so great.  I hope people remember that it is about giving and keep things positive.


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## nolongerhere1723 (Aug 16, 2014)

DonnaD said:


> @  I'm sorry but I truly do not understand what about it would be fun for you.  Regardless of a survey, people want to know who they're gifting and they get incredibly frustrated when that's not possible.  Knowing that you'd make it difficult and not fun, you'd still do it anyway?  I find that just plain odd.
> 
> PS:  I don't have a clique here on mut and I really can't say I've ever really noticed exclusionary behaviour...which is what cliques do.





usofjessamerica said:


> I think there's lots of ways this can be fun for a member like @. I can see how the fun can just come by simply following along. If I had a rare but thoughtful poster, as @ makes her self out to be, I personally would find that enjoyable. Between the survey, those 50-100 or whatever posts (lol compared to my what? 2k+ yikes), I think I can take a lot from that. I'd rather see 50-100 thoughtful posts than 2000 "me too!" Or "OMG cute!" We can't ask everyone to make thoughtful posts all the time. And she's right, with the "like" feature, continuing to *not* post is easier.


I agree with what @ said. For me, part of the fun would be following along and getting to participate in something bigger on the site. As well as shopping for deals, trying to think about creative gifts, wrapping up something pretty, and generally just getting into a generous holiday spirit. I also actually get a lot out of just following threads--reading along is engaging for me just like chiming in might be engaging for you--but that might just be me being my introverted self.

I never said I wouldn't participate in the chat forums for SS. My point was that it is just harder for some people to open up than it might be for you--especially about general, open chat type of things--or jump in to an ongoing conversation between friends. If I participate in SS and don't talk much, my intent is certainly not to be difficult or un-fun, and I hate to think I would be making it harder for my gifter. I'm just not as comfortable/don't have as much time for random ongoing chit-chat, but I will do my best to respond to open questions and fill out the survey comprehensively to help my SS. 

Thanks to all for the support!


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## SaraP (Aug 17, 2014)

I don't know if this would work, but what if there was a question of the week? A quick @insertnameofmember to everyone who signed up.

I know not everyone would want to answer everything, but it would help people catch up with the threads. As well as give people a jumping point into the current conversation, if they're inclined.


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## SaraP (Aug 17, 2014)

Example @everyone in the swap Favorite eye product?

No requirement to answer, but helpful info and a nice icebreaker for someone not sure how to jump in.


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## angienharry (Aug 17, 2014)

Good morning ladies, throwing my .02 in.

I think that it's so commendable for those who are reserved to come on and open up about their feelings surrounding this subject. So, Way to go for that!

Secondly, I agree it can seem cliquey (?sp) but I don't think that's anyone's intention. If you post frequently, have been around a long time, of course bonds will be stronger. That being said, I felt very welcomed when I was new and I lurked around quite a while before my first post. I think the things we have posted about lately- number of posts that should be required and passionately describing feedback sought etc may be very intimidating to newer members.

I love SS and the FGC swap was awesome as well and I just want to say that I have no problem with new, and/or quiet members as long as they fill out a survey (I think we can all agree that is a must) and an acknowledgement of my gift. Either to me or a mod, whatever. I just want to know it got there ok. I very much enjoyed the reveals - don't get me wrong, but the spirit of gift giving isn't about what's good for you, it's about what's good for the giftee. And if my SS isn't comfortable posting pics, no big deal, not comfortable expressing her appreciation publically also just fine with me.


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## pooteeweet213 (Aug 18, 2014)

@ - Don't be discouraged! I'm not the most active poster, but I've still had wonderful SeSa and MSND experiences and feel like I've made great connections with both my gifters and giftees. I really hope you do this winter's swap!

And I also second (third? fourth? haha) @@jocedun 's suggestion of a discussion thread and an announcement thread for moderators to post important stuff on. The discussion thread moves REALLY fast (and will likely only be faster with more people joining) and it can be hard to keep up with so pulling out the important stuff is really helpful if someone can't be on the site for a few days.


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## pooteeweet213 (Aug 18, 2014)

lovepink said:


> I also participated in Secret Santa 2013.  While the person I got did not post a lot, she had a trade thread so I had something to go off of.  I have to own the fact I could have sent more stuff but I was insecure in my selections that what if I sent her blush and she hates it?  This is why I think having the surveys helps so much.


Perfect example of how fast the discussion threads can move! I felt SOOOOO bad when I didn't notice everyone filling out surveys until it was too late because of me being away for a week. Had there been an announcements thread with only important posts I might have seen it sooner! This is also a reason that I really liked that everyone had to do surveys ahead of time for MSND. And doing periodic questions on the discussion thread would help with it too. 

That said, you gave me such an awesome gift! I use everything all of the time, and people compliment the coasters all of the time!!  :luv:


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## jennm149 (Aug 18, 2014)

There were a few things about the Midsummerswap survey that were very helpful and that I hope we do for future swaps.

First, the surveys were in a separate thread, not just in the regular chat thread as they were last Christmas.  In addition, @@meaganola was tagged in each, and was able to put a post (maybe at the beginning of the sign-up thread?) with all the participants' names that you could click on to go to the survey.  That made it very easy to find them. 

I know that there may have been some concerns that came up subsequently about posting allergy information and whether having that info available publicly could be a privacy issue, so maybe that would need to stay in the email with the person's "real" name and address that would be sent in the assignment PM.  But if we could have a separate, tagged thread with the surveys, it would be great.

I also think that having a separate thread for "Important Announcements" is key. I think there may have been a couple of important things said by the mods (especially in the Summerswap thread) that quickly got lost in the shuffle.  Once all of the assignments go out, I'd like to see a list of all the participants posted there.

Last -- a sort of question/comment.  It doesn't seem that we still have the ability to search by member name if we have logged out to do some ninja stalking.  When I'm logged out and search for members, I get a message that no results match the search.  There used to be a way to "appear offline" but stay logged in -- is that still available on the "new" site?  I haven't been able to find it.  If we can't "appear offline" and if we can't search for members when we're not logged in, is there some other way (maybe a tag to each swap participants' profile) that would let us check in on what they are doing without them knowing?  Don't mean to be creepy ... but you know we all love that stealthy stuff.


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## Lolo22 (Aug 18, 2014)

I really like the announcements thread idea. 

@@jennm149 - One idea that worked for me, was doing the persons "find content" and then saving that link to all of their posts.  Then I could visit the link anytime while logged in and I did not show up as a view to their profile (I tested this with a roadie to make sure).  You could have an elf grab the link for you too or perhaps people could post their own link in their survey response (if they knew how).  I concur though, that it wouldn't let me do searching of members while logged out.


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## Kelly Silva (Aug 18, 2014)

I just thought of a few things that could be changed from Summerswap. I know there were some extenuating circumstances and the mods were busy with real life stuff, but we never got the whole survey that people originally had to fill out to sign up. And I had to ask a roadie to check what my person's allergies were. If we could get that all at once at the beginning I think that would be really helpful. Get our person's real name, survey answers, allergy information, all at the beginning when we get our person. Then somehow get their address at the end when it's time to start sending our gifts. I don't really know the logistics of that, but basically I would like to know my person's real name (first name at the very least, for namesake gifts), allergies, and their mandatory survey just in case they never make a wish list thread for themselves. It all worked out for me at the end, but I couldn't help but feel like I missed out on a few gift ideas because I didn't know her first name until the end.


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## latinafeminista (Aug 18, 2014)

I have to chime in to say I agree with the first post of the thread (or somewhere specific) announcing all the major deadlines, links to surveys, rules. etc.  I know I have had issues both last year and this year finding this type of information at times.  

I am also not a super frequent poster but I also agree with those who said we all get enjoyment from this experience in different ways.  At any moment, I might not feel like posting a comment that is similar to what others have already posted but I absolutely love the experience of reading the thread, and feeling like part of the community.  The Secret Santa and Midsummer Swap have only helped me feel more at home here at MUT and I would love for other people to get to experience that as well.


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## Mickayla-Kat Dussault (Aug 18, 2014)

Im relatively new, I've been here a few months and have been curious about the secret santa and swaps and such! I'd love to do one! Especially one that we can trade products from brands we've never tried before ect, ect. 

Anyone mind explaining to me how the "survey's" work and how the swaps happen? It really does seem super rad!


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## rachel4207 (Sep 13, 2014)

this is my first year on her and I was wondering how to you sign up from the secret santa? and how does it all work? is the a post somewhere with all this

infomation thanks  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## chelsealady (Sep 13, 2014)

rachel4207 said:


> this is my first year on her and I was wondering how to you sign up from the secret santa? and how does it all work? is the a post somewhere with all this
> 
> infomation thanks  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


There will be a post where you can sign up and more details close to time. There is a MUT slumber party thread that you can hang out in till time yo sign up.


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## Mickayla-Kat Dussault (Sep 13, 2014)

chelsealady said:


> There will be a post where you can sign up and more details close to time. There is a MUT slumber party thread that you can hang out in till time yo sign up.


Thanks for that information!  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## tacehtpuekam (Sep 13, 2014)

Yikes. Well, it appears that my original suggestion about post counts and whatnot got blown completely out of context, so I'm just going to scratch that idea &amp; say to leave it how it is. There's no way to please everyone, unfortunately. 

At this point the only thing I would still really like to see changed is the timeline. Shorter signup window and more time added at the beginning of the shopping window. Just because..it's so close to the holidays and it takes so long for things to ship (especially indies, which is becoming a growing interest across the forum). I just want to make sure everyone has time to get things ordered, receive them, and wrap without getting too stressed. I think a one week sign up window is probably plenty sufficient.  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> 

I'd also like to see the separate thread ideas from MSND &amp; Summer Swap carry over to Secret Santa. Discussion thread, announcement thread, elf thread, survey thread, reveal thread. Much, much easier than trying to find what you need in one big thread. 

Keep in mind this is just a suggestion thread. As far as I know, @@zadidoll hasn't confirmed she's making any changes at all yet. (And I'm sure if any of the other mods ended up stepping in to run it, they wouldn't go crazy with changes either. We all have our opinions obviously but ultimately it's about what's going to work best for the entire group.  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> )


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## tacehtpuekam (Sep 13, 2014)

Lolo22 said:


> I really like the announcements thread idea.
> 
> @@jennm149 - One idea that worked for me, was doing the persons "find content" and then saving that link to all of their posts.  Then I could visit the link anytime while logged in and I did not show up as a view to their profile (I tested this with a roadie to make sure).  You could have an elf grab the link for you too or perhaps people could post their own link in their survey response (if they knew how).  I concur though, that it wouldn't let me do searching of members while logged out.


Yep, this! I saved my person's content page &amp; wishlist page to my favorites so I could reference them quick without going through her profile all the time.  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## Jwls750 (Sep 22, 2014)

allistra44 said:


> Yep, this! I saved my person's content page &amp; wishlist page to my favorites so I could reference them quick without going through her profile all the time.  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


This is a great idea! I love that. I should remember to do that this year. I love SS, and I sometimes agree it's cliquey, but also completely understand why that is. I think as long as everyone get's something/gives something in the end it is all O.K. 

I will totally volunteer to be that someone who does an extra SS if someone's SS cancels or backs out or whatever. All that I think matters is that everyone knows their thoughts and time is appreciated in doing this.

Did any of that make sense?  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> hahha


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## tanya0949 (Sep 30, 2014)

Has a signup date been confirmed? I've been busy with a new baby and haven't been following the thread closely.


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## Allison H (Sep 30, 2014)

tanya0949 said:


> Has a signup date been confirmed? I've been busy with a new baby and haven't been following the thread closely.


I'm not sure that it's been confirmed...I have November 1st marked on my calendar for sign ups, but I'm not sure how "set in stone" this date is. Congratulations on your new baby!  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## JC327 (Oct 3, 2014)

tanya0949 said:


> Has a signup date been confirmed? I've been busy with a new baby and haven't been following the thread closely.


Congrats on the baby! No signup date yet.


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## kawaiimeows (Oct 3, 2014)

Hi everyone! @@zadidoll has posted the rules for 2014 Secret Santa, so hopefully this will answer all of your questions.

https://www.makeuptalk.com/f/topic/134496-2014-secret-santa-rules/

"Sign ups for Secret Santa will begin *Saturday, October 25* and last through *Saturday, November 15*. This is a THREE week window to sign up."

So get ready, and happy secret santa-ing!  :flowers:


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## zadidoll (Oct 3, 2014)

There are five rules that I want to point out that are VERY important and a bit of a change.


I eliminated the must be a member by ____ date. So long as they have 50 posts by the 1st day of sign ups they can join. What I was not specific and will go back to make specific is that the posts must be quality posts not "drive by" posts ("Hi!" or "I agree" types of posts).
 
I'm making tracking mandatory this year. There just is no excuse not to have it mandatory since it's an 80 cent add on at the post office and it's part of Paypal's price if Paypal's Ship feature is used. I want the tracking to be sent to myself or to one of the Santa's Helper/Elf (those are to be determined).
 
I expanded both the sign up and shipping by three weeks each. Signs ups will start at the end of October (last Saturday of October) through the 15th of October. Purchase and send will start any time you choose through December 15 for domestic mail. If you have someone who is International I did state the date of December 1 HOWEVER that will vary depending on where the person is at. If you are waiting for a package to be delivered to you KEEP US (organizers) in the loop via PM!
 
Include your forum name some where on OR in your gift. I hate it when a Secret Santa gift is so secret that the giftee has to come to us to get the info on who their SS was. Not required - your real name.
 
While posting photos is not mandatory acknowledging you received the gift IS mandatory. All you have to say is "I got my gift from my SS, I'm going to wait until Christmas to open my gift" and that's it even if you opened it didn't like it. You can let us organizers know that there was an issue ESPECIALLY if the item(s) broke the rules (like if it was used or swatched or opened).

What I didn't make a rule but will include in the rules as a suggestion is to get insurance on the package. For those in the US insurance is included in some of the priority ship labels (up to $50) so make sure YOU take pictures of the condition of the products but just keep in mind US laws PROHIBIT shipping of nail polish. Example, you send a box of goodies and there was a nail polish that broke and spilled everywhere then the insurance may not cover it because of the nail polish. Make sure you pack according to what you're shipping with perfumes, nail polishes, liquids packed in a zip loc bag after wrapping just to be on the safe side.


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## tulosai (Oct 3, 2014)

While I obviously do not expect you to change this now, I wanted to voice for consideration for the future that I think the turnaround time for international swap buddies is ROUGH, and is what makes me want to avoid saying I can take an international santee. Those people are going to have barely 2 weeks to stalk, shop and ship and I personally think that's not long enough.  Some indies take 2 weeks to even ship the package out to you and even with bigger and better known companies it is common that it would take at least 1 week to get something. It is even more frustrating if someone is 'late' posting their wants list in that case you'd basically have to guess just to get stuff on time.

I am not meaning to sound critical and I understand why December 1 has to be the ship date to make sure people get it by Christmas, but I think a 2 week window is really, REALLY tight.  I personally would favor a 2 week sign up window so there would be 3 weeks minimum to shop.

Again, this is not meant to sound overly complaining and I do not expect you to change anything for this year, but I feel this is a serious concern that I need to voice.


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## zadidoll (Oct 3, 2014)

Unfortunately this rule is this is based on the shipping deadlines set by UPS and the post office. I did just modify the rule for that to this:
 
_Gifts must be sent out no later than December 1 for international exchanges and December 15 for domestic.
Note: This will give you up to a three week window to shop and ship. For those participating in an international exchange please refer to the USPS or UPS site for details on when the deadline for shipping international happens to be._


_Navy holiday mailing dates_
_UPS holiday mailing dates_
_USPS holiday mailing dates_
_Endicia holiday mailing dates_
Some of the international deadlines is actually December 3 with others up to December 10. I understand that it's harder to stalk and shop for someone with a shorter time frame however it is possible just more difficult.


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## tacehtpuekam (Oct 3, 2014)

Would it be possible to add time at the beginning of the window though? Have sign ups for only two weeks instead of three? Then the International Santas have three weeks to stalk/shop/ship. 

ETA: @@zadidoll  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## zadidoll (Oct 3, 2014)

You mean close the window on November 8 instead of the 15? I'm open to that but want to hear from the majority.


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## tulosai (Oct 3, 2014)

allistra44 said:


> Would it be possible to add time at the beginning of the window though? Have sign ups for only two weeks instead of three? Then the International Santas have three weeks to stalk/shop/ship.
> 
> ETA: @@zadidoll  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


This is essentially my suggestion/question too.  It is only my opinion, but I personally don't see any great advantage to having signups be 3 weeks rather than 2... if anything, I think the vast majority of people sign up in the first few days, and then people do stream in but much more slowly.  Some people delay signing up till the end of the sign up window to see what their finances shape up to be, but I think those delays would be in the same amount in a 2 week window as in a 3 week window, and that about the same percentage would ultimately sign up.

I know I'm only one person but I honestly don't recall anyone advocating that sign up window be longer, whereas I do remember some people even advocating a shorter one.

ETA: I just say your most recent post, Zadi, and I did want to say too that I  100% do think/agree that majority should rule on this issue. If many people do want a 3 week sign up window so be it.


----------



## tacehtpuekam (Oct 3, 2014)

zadidoll said:


> You mean close the window on November 8 instead of the 15? I'm open to that but want to hear from the majority.


Of course! Honestly it doesn't even really affect me since I'm not planning on shipping internationally, but just throwing it out there as a suggestion for anyone who is.  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## Jwls750 (Oct 3, 2014)

I would COMPLETELY rather have a  2 week window, and more time to shop. Is saying 2 weeks to sign up is too long a stretch?? Call me crazy, but who needs 2 weeks to sign up? Most people probably sign up the 1st week anyway right? (Maybe I'm crazy and totally wrong  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />) 2 weeks is good!

Also, even for people who do domestic (like me) having more time to shop is always good  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## Lolo22 (Oct 3, 2014)

allistra44 said:


> Would it be possible to add time at the beginning of the window though? Have sign ups for only two weeks instead of three? Then the International Santas have three weeks to stalk/shop/ship.
> 
> ETA: @@zadidoll  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


I agree, less time for sign ups.  I also like the new rules and think they are a good compromise to different issues raised here.


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## zadidoll (Oct 3, 2014)

VOTE NOW!

https://www.makeuptalk.com/f/topic/134500-vital-do-i-close-the-sign-up-window-early-or-leave-as-is/​


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## meaganola (Oct 3, 2014)

I vote for shorter signup and longer shopping windows! My intent is to go full indie, and TAT can BLOW UP LIKE WHOA during this time of year.


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## tacehtpuekam (Oct 3, 2014)

@@JC327 What are your thoughts on this?  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## onelilspark (Oct 3, 2014)

I have a question about the $25 value.  This will be my first Secret Santa and I just want to make sure I understand everything right!

From my stalking of previous years, it seems like the dollar amount to spend has always been around $25, but that a lot of people have included more than that (I know it's not necessary, but that people have.)  Is the value at $25 so that the gifts are more consistent?  Or is it still pretty much the same in that if we choose to, we can include more, but just don't expect anything more than a value of $25?  

I have points and samples that I'm hoarding...so I just want to make sure I'm on the same page!

ETA: One more question - what does it typically cost to ship internationally?


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## zadidoll (Oct 3, 2014)

onelilspark said:


> I have a question about the $25 value.  This will be my first Secret Santa and I just want to make sure I understand everything right!
> 
> From my stalking of previous years, it seems like the dollar amount to spend has always been around $25, but that a lot of people have included more than that (I know it's not necessary, but that people have.)  Is the value at $25 so that the gifts are more consistent?  Or is it still pretty much the same in that if we choose to, we can include more, but just don't expect anything more than a value of $25?
> 
> ...


People tend to go above the $25 limit and that's fine. Many people use points, freebies they get from purchases or from their personal stash of unused items from various subscription groups. People also do a lot of swapping to get what they want for their giftee. So long as the items are new, unused and never opened. I love shopping Black Friday and Cyber Monday sales because you typically can walk away with hundreds of dollars worth of product for under $30.

Cost to ship internationally varies depending on the weight of the package and the location. Last time I sent a small gift via priority to the middle east it was $25.


----------



## tacehtpuekam (Oct 3, 2014)

onelilspark said:


> I have a question about the $25 value.  This will be my first Secret Santa and I just want to make sure I understand everything right!
> 
> From my stalking of previous years, it seems like the dollar amount to spend has always been around $25, but that a lot of people have included more than that (I know it's not necessary, but that people have.)  Is the value at $25 so that the gifts are more consistent?  Or is it still pretty much the same in that if we choose to, we can include more, but just don't expect anything more than a value of $25?
> 
> ...


I usually try (and fail) to stay pretty close to the $25 limit as far as actual purchases go, but then I also include items from my own stash, from trades, or purchased with Birchbox points. Plus there are always such great sales around Christmas!  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## latinafeminista (Oct 3, 2014)

I just voted for shorter signups because I definitely think we need more time for shopping!


----------



## latinafeminista (Oct 3, 2014)

onelilspark said:


> I have a question about the $25 value.  This will be my first Secret Santa and I just want to make sure I understand everything right!
> 
> From my stalking of previous years, it seems like the dollar amount to spend has always been around $25, but that a lot of people have included more than that (I know it's not necessary, but that people have.)  Is the value at $25 so that the gifts are more consistent? * Or is it still pretty much the same in that if we choose to, we can include more, but just don't expect anything more than a value of $25?  *
> 
> ...


I think it's your latter option for sure


----------



## onelilspark (Oct 3, 2014)

zadidoll said:


> People tend to go above the $25 limit and that's fine. Many people use points, freebies they get from purchases or from their personal stash of unused items from various subscription groups. People also do a lot of swapping to get what they want for their giftee. So long as the items are new, unused and never opened. I love shopping Black Friday and Cyber Monday sales because you typically can walk away with hundreds of dollars worth of product for under $30.
> 
> Cost to ship internationally varies depending on the weight of the package and the location. Last time I sent a small gift via priority to the middle east it was $25.





allistra44 said:


> I usually try (and fail) to stay pretty close to the $25 limit as far as actual purchases go, but then I also include items from my own stash, from trades, or purchased with Birchbox points. Plus there are always such great sales around Christmas!  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />





latinafeminista said:


> I think it's your latter option for sure



Thanks ladies!  That was my understanding prior to reading the rules, so I'm glad it's still that way - I have been crazy about hoarding my Ulta points the past few months!  

I quoted something for work today (that was a lot heavier than this should be) going international and it was $300...so I wanted to make sure I wouldn't sign myself up for something too crazy.


----------



## DonnaD (Oct 3, 2014)

Just request no international delivery when you sign up.  I, personally, always stay within the USA because even shipping to Canada has exorbitant shipping fees...you'd never guess is freakin' attached to us!  You don't have to accept an international secret santee.  I believe it's asked of you in the sign up questionnaire.

 .


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## tacehtpuekam (Oct 3, 2014)

DonnaD said:


> Just request no international delivery when you sign up.  I, personally, always stay within the USA because even shipping to Canada has exorbitant shipping fees...you'd never guess is freakin' attached to us!  You don't have to accept an international secret santee.  I believe it's asked of you in the sign up questionnaire.
> 
> .


Correct, you can request a santee within the same country. 

I'm assuming most of the ladies who aren't in the US will need to ship internationally though, so we're looking at the timeline for their sake.


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## tulosai (Oct 3, 2014)

I would say also that while shipping is very expensive international the potential payoff can also be great if you are very interested in trying international cosmetics.  In Europe, and all other continents, there are many things available that are not available here and vice versa.  If you get a good buddy it can add a really really fun dimension to the whole thing.


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## Elizabeth Mac (Oct 3, 2014)

I agree with a shorter sign-up window for all of the reasons already mentioned. I've already started collecting items just in case my person is interested. I truly think about Christmas year-round! I love gifting so much!!!


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## SaraP (Oct 3, 2014)

Late to the vote but...Short window to ensure more shopping time!


----------



## Kristine Walker (Oct 3, 2014)

I have a question about the rules. It states that all items must be new,  never opened, swatched, used , or tested. I have no problems giving things strictly according to that rule. My question is that there are some items I would love to receive even if they are used.

  Case in point: Midsummer swap. My number one wishlist item was the UD Glinda palette, used was fine by me. Lo and behold, my fondest wish came true! I did indeed receive a beautiful, gorgeous, beloved Glinda palette in gently used condition! I was beyond thrilled as I thought it was an impossible wish. (I still crow about it, Momma and DH are getting about tired of my ongoing excitement )

   May I state in my Secret Santa information that I , personally ,do not mind if certain products (ie palettes) are used?


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## lovepink (Oct 3, 2014)

Ok maybe I am missing something but if we have to ship by December 1st this means we will not be able to take advantage of any black Friday sales right?  Because Thanksgiving is Nov 27th and then December 1st is the following Monday.

It has been a long day and I would just like clarification.  TIA!


----------



## SaraP (Oct 3, 2014)

lovepink said:


> Ok maybe I am missing something but if we have to ship by December 1st this means we will not be able to take advantage of any black Friday sales right?  Because Thanksgiving is Nov 27th and then December 1st is the following Monday.
> 
> It has been a long day and I would just like clarification.  TIA!


@@lovepink The 1st is only for international shippers, the 15th for the rest, but with an earlier sign up day we should be able to shop the bf sales.


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## lovepink (Oct 3, 2014)

sarap said:


> @@lovepink The 1st is only for international shippers, the 15th for the rest, but with an earlier sign up day we should be able to shop the bf sales.


Thank you!  I knew I must have been misreading things!  Thank you for clarifying for my sleep addled, sugar infested, sitting in  traffic melted mind!  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## kawaiiwoofs (Oct 3, 2014)

Kristine Walker said:


> I have a question about the rules. It states that all items must be new,  never opened, swatched, used , or tested. I have no problems giving things strictly according to that rule. My question is that there are some items I would love to receive even if they are used.
> 
> Case in point: Midsummer swap. My number one wishlist item was the UD Glinda palette, used was fine by me. Lo and behold, my fondest wish came true! I did indeed receive a beautiful, gorgeous, beloved Glinda palette in gently used condition! I was beyond thrilled as I thought it was an impossible wish. (I still crow about it, Momma and DH are getting about tired of my ongoing excitement )
> 
> May I state in my Secret Santa information that I , personally ,do not mind if certain products (ie palettes) are used?


This is a point of information I think that should/will be included in the survey/profile/info and would count as an extra and not toward the $25 since it is used.


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## meaganola (Oct 3, 2014)

I think the key word to clarify here is "value."  It's not that the *value* of whatever you're sending has to be below $25.  It's that your *out-of-pocket expense* should be below that amount.  My 2015 packages are likely going to go *way* over the value due to a Kickstarter (less than seven hundred bucks to MAGIC!), and then there are all sorts of things I accumulate and never use thanks to subs that can probably go into my Santa packages, not to mention GWP or breaking-up-gift-sets stuff, but I won't be counting those items against my spending limit.


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## BSquared (Oct 3, 2014)

So soon already!! Woohoo I am excited! I miss shopping for someone else!

Edit: becuse iPhone.


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## NotTheMama (Oct 4, 2014)

Is there going to be a separate Secret Santa for nails again this year? It was so much darn fun last year I'd love to see it make a return!


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## zadidoll (Oct 4, 2014)

Pollysmom said:


> Is there going to be a separate Secret Santa for nails again this year? It was so much darn fun last year I'd love to see it make a return!


If I have staff to run it like last year then yes it'll be back. I didn't run nails last year and I'm not running it this year. I wasn't going to run Secret Santa this year either but here I am.  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## zadidoll (Oct 4, 2014)

Oh and that reminds me, I've decided to take someone's advice - forgot who, sorry! - and we'll be using Elfster this year to coordinate Secret Santa.  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> I do have it up now however I'm not going to post the link to it yet until the day of the official sign up. At this time it looks like the deadline will indeed be November 8 since for far we have approximately 40 yes let's close it November 8 to zero leave it open until the 15.


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## JC327 (Oct 4, 2014)

allistra44 said:


> @@JC327 What are your thoughts on this?  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


Thanks for mentioning me didnt realize this thread had blown up. I will catch up and let you know.


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## JC327 (Oct 4, 2014)

tulosai said:


> While I obviously do not expect you to change this now, I wanted to voice for consideration for the future that I think the turnaround time for international swap buddies is ROUGH, and is what makes me want to avoid saying I can take an international santee. Those people are going to have barely 2 weeks to stalk, shop and ship and I personally think that's not long enough.  Some indies take 2 weeks to even ship the package out to you and even with bigger and better known companies it is common that it would take at least 1 week to get something. It is even more frustrating if someone is 'late' posting their wants list in that case you'd basically have to guess just to get stuff on time.
> 
> I am not meaning to sound critical and I understand why December 1 has to be the ship date to make sure people get it by Christmas, but I think a 2 week window is really, REALLY tight.  I personally would favor a 2 week sign up window so there would be 3 weeks minimum to shop.
> 
> Again, this is not meant to sound overly complaining and I do not expect you to change anything for this year, but I feel this is a serious concern that I need to voice.


I agree with this, sometimes mail sent to and from APO takes forever to arrive. I am looking  to see if the German mailing system is quicker during the holidays because I would be worried about my giftee getting their gift late.


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## Dashery (Oct 4, 2014)

zadidoll said:


> I wasn't going to run Secret Santa this year either but here I am.  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


We're lucky to have you! Thanks for organizing it, Zadi!  :hugs3:  ♡o｡.(✿ฺ｡ ✿ฺ)


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## onelilspark (Oct 4, 2014)

meaganola said:


> I think the key word to clarify here is "value."  It's not that the *value* of whatever you're sending has to be below $25.  It's that your *out-of-pocket expense* should be below that amount.


Yes, that's exactly what threw me for a loop!


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## JC327 (Oct 4, 2014)

zadidoll said:


> People tend to go above the $25 limit and that's fine. Many people use points, freebies they get from purchases or from their personal stash of unused items from various subscription groups. People also do a lot of swapping to get what they want for their giftee. So long as the items are new, unused and never opened. I love shopping Black Friday and Cyber Monday sales because you typically can walk away with hundreds of dollars worth of product for under $30.
> 
> Cost to ship internationally varies depending on the weight of the package and the location. Last time I sent a small gift via priority to the middle east it was $25.


Not sure if  I fall in the international category since  I have a US mailing address but who ever ships to me needs to fill out a customs form.


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## Jac13 (Oct 4, 2014)

I like the idea of a shorter window. So, I vote for the 8th.


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## zadidoll (Oct 4, 2014)

It looks like, since we're over 40 votes in, that the window will be shorter this year with a longer shop/stalk/send window. Just remember that once you DO mail it to send me or the Elves (TBD) the tracking #. We're going to try to avoid the issues we had last year with a couple of members who waited until AFTER Christmas to send stuff with one member (who has been subsequently banned due to swaplifting) sending used/old products. Trust me, I have a few choice words about people like that. That is why tracking is mandatory this year and it costs about 80 cents to $1.25 more at the post office unless priority is used. Best to use Paypal since 1st class still has built in tracking.


----------



## Jac13 (Oct 4, 2014)

I wish we could do an early ship and end date as well. My least favorite thing is the drawn out wait time, especially around the holidays. Are we doing the tier group? I know that was thrown around after last year reveals.


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## zadidoll (Oct 4, 2014)

No, no tier group this year.


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## Luxx22 (Oct 8, 2014)

zadidoll said:


> No, no tier group this year.


Can Canadians par take in this?  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> I do a lot of trades here internationally to the USA, so it's not too expensive  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## tacehtpuekam (Oct 8, 2014)

LuxxyLuxx said:


> Can Canadians par take in this?  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> I do a lot of trades here internationally to the USA, so it's not too expensive  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


Yep, it's international!

ETA: Here's this year's rules: https://www.makeuptalk.com/f/topic/134496-2014-secret-santa-rules/


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## Luxx22 (Oct 8, 2014)

allistra44 said:


> Yep, it's international!
> 
> ETA: Here's this year's rules: https://www.makeuptalk.com/f/topic/134496-2014-secret-santa-rules/


Thank you  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## nolongerhere1723 (Oct 8, 2014)

So I have one tiny concern. I might be traveling for the holidays on the earlier side this year, which, depending on the shipping method chosen, might mean I am traveling when the package arrives. I'd hate for it to be sitting out all that time. Is this something I could let my SS know in advance through an elf (once I know definitely when I'm leaving)? I'd prefer to not have it sent to where I'll be (flying, so difficult to travel with things back!), but of course don't want to inconvenience my santa either. Has anyone dealt with this before and have any thoughts?


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## tacehtpuekam (Oct 8, 2014)

hsalt said:


> So I have one tiny concern. I might be traveling for the holidays on the earlier side this year, which, depending on the shipping method chosen, might mean I am traveling when the package arrives. I'd hate for it to be sitting out all that time. Is this something I could let my SS know in advance through an elf (once I know definitely when I'm leaving)? I'd prefer to not have it sent to where I'll be (flying, so difficult to travel with things back!), but of course don't want to inconvenience my santa either. Has anyone dealt with this before and have any thoughts?


Shouldn't be a problem! I'm guessing a lot of people will be travelling around the holidays! I'd just let one of the organizers know what dates you'll be travelling &amp; they can relay the information to your Santa.  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

ETA: And, of course, make sure you'll still be able to send your own gift own gift out by the shipping deadline.


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## lovepink (Oct 8, 2014)

hsalt said:


> So I have one tiny concern. I might be traveling for the holidays on the earlier side this year, which, depending on the shipping method chosen, might mean I am traveling when the package arrives. I'd hate for it to be sitting out all that time. Is this something I could let my SS know in advance through an elf (once I know definitely when I'm leaving)? I'd prefer to not have it sent to where I'll be (flying, so difficult to travel with things back!), but of course don't want to inconvenience my santa either. Has anyone dealt with this before and have any thoughts?


I thought of this today too, so thank you for asking!  I am going to be in the Midwest from December 22-January 1st.  I am going to my parents house so I can totally get mail there and will adjust my send off around my vacation!


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## meaganola (Oct 8, 2014)

hsalt said:


> So I have one tiny concern. I might be traveling for the holidays on the earlier side this year, which, depending on the shipping method chosen, might mean I am traveling when the package arrives. I'd hate for it to be sitting out all that time. Is this something I could let my SS know in advance through an elf (once I know definitely when I'm leaving)? I'd prefer to not have it sent to where I'll be (flying, so difficult to travel with things back!), but of course don't want to inconvenience my santa either. Has anyone dealt with this before and have any thoughts?


Yup.  In fact, I had this very situation happen to Midsummer:  My recipient had a family emergency that had her changing addresses unexpectedly.  It's not a problem at all as long as you're in communication with the organizers so they can get the information relayed as necessary!


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## nolongerhere1723 (Oct 8, 2014)

Thanks for the quick responses everyone! Eeee I'm getting excited!


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## zadidoll (Oct 10, 2014)

Here are some of the names from last year's Secret Santa in case anyone from last year wants to participate and needs a reminder that sign ups are coming soon.

@

@@alterkate

@amandawarwick

@@amdoerr

@@angienharry

@@Animezing

@@BagLady

@

@@Bethesda1234

@@Bflopolska

@@blueangel1023

@@bluelion

@@bonita22

@@Charity1217

@@chelsealady

@@chelsealynn

@@CheshireCookie

@CourtneyB

@@Dakota750

@@Dayo Steph

@@Deareux

@@DeSha

@@Donna529

@@donutbaby

@@DorotaD

@@dotybird

@@DoubleShot

@@Elizabeth Mac

@@elizabethrose

@@EmpressMelli

@@evildrporkchop

@@farrah3

@@FireNRice

@@FormosaHoney

@@FrostKitty

@@gemstone

@@heartsandwhimsy

@@heath67013

@@heather4602

@@HHummel

@@iPretty949

@@jac a

@@Jac13

@@Jamie P

@@jannie135

@@jaylee78

@@Jazbot

@@JC327

@@jenniferrose

@@jordiemac3

@@jpark107

@@Jwls750

@@kellsbells

@

@@KittenZ

@@klg534

@@Kristine Walker

@@LadyK

@@Lanai12

@@Last Contrast

@@latinafeminista

@@lemony007

@@lioness90

@@LisaLeah

@@LolaJay

@@lovepink

@@luckyme502

@@LyndaV

@

@@makeitupasigo

@@Margo Julianna

@@mckondik

@@meaganola

@@mermuse

@

@@missemiee

@@MissRoe

@@morre22

@@nicepenguins

@@nikkimouse

@@NittanyLionGRRL

@@OpheliaDiFranco

@@paralegalatl

@@pooteeweet213

@@puppymomofthree

@@Sakura83

@@secrethoarder

@@Sheeeeeelby

@@slinka

@@sparklegirl

@@StefanieH30

@@StickyLips

@@Sunflowercake

@@tanya0949

@@tgooberbutt

@@Tiffany27la

@@tnorth1852

@@trekkersangel

@@ttanner2005

@@tulosai

@@tweakabell

@

@@utgal2004

@@wrkreads

@@yousoldtheworld


----------



## Sakura83 (Oct 11, 2014)

So beyond excited!! Thank you for the reminder. I have a feeling the list will grow  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> Let the count down begin to Oct. 25th ! Love the holiday shopping season  :luv:


----------



## DeSha (Oct 12, 2014)

Looking forward to it!


----------



## Paulina PS (Oct 12, 2014)

I think I'd really like to join but I'm located in Poland and I don't know if anyone would like to do a swap to Europe. What's more, I'm worried I may get asked for some specific brands which are not available here  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> I can definately offer some interesting brands and products which may be new to the US participants (or some Polish brands that are getting popular abroad) and lots of Korean stuff, but I won't be able to get some things like Nars, Tarte etc. for sure...


----------



## zadidoll (Oct 12, 2014)

Paulina - join still. I'm sure there are people here who would love to try European brands.


----------



## Paulina PS (Oct 12, 2014)

Thanks, I'm in then  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> Already looking forward to joining and some Christmas shopping  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## meaganola (Oct 12, 2014)

I think that a lot of people who sign up for international (at least in the US) do so because they are specifically *hoping* for brands and products they can't get at home!  I know that's why I do it (although I probably won't do so this time because I am hoping to go full indie this time around, and TAT with a lot of my favorite companies will mean I can't get things in time for the shipping deadline for international).  You might not see one of your home brands on wishlists, but that's most likely just because people simply don't know about them.


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## slinka (Oct 12, 2014)

I was one of those that was more than willing to recieve brands outside of the US, so definitely join in. I'm sure there's lots more people who feel the same  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## Paulina PS (Oct 13, 2014)

Thank you, ladies  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## Jwls750 (Oct 13, 2014)

So excited!!! I love the SS swap  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


----------



## Bflopolska (Oct 14, 2014)

I'm in and looking forward to this year's swap! And I am fine with international friends, too!


----------



## Jazbot (Oct 15, 2014)

This is one of my favorite times of the year. I am in!


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## BSquared (Oct 15, 2014)

So for people that have done it...how hard is it to ship/receive internationally?

I would LOVE some stuff I can't get my hands on....but I have zero idea how to work the post office. Is it difficult?


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## tulosai (Oct 15, 2014)

bsquared said:


> So for people that have done it...how hard is it to ship/receive internationally?
> 
> I would LOVE some stuff I can't get my hands on....but I have zero idea how to work the post office. Is it difficult?


It is definitely not hard (i've done so, not for this swap, but generally, from here to a variety of places internationally and from several european countries when I lived in them) but it can get pricey so investigate shipping costs before so you're not stunned when the time comes. Mark whatever you send as a gift and never put a high value, are my two other pieces of advice.  These are ways you can generally help avoid any fees to the recipient on their getting the package.


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## Paulina PS (Oct 15, 2014)

tulosai said:


> It is definitely not hard (i've done so, not for this swap, but generally, from here to a variety of places internationally and from several european countries when I lived in them) but it can get pricey so investigate shipping costs before so you're not stunned when the time comes. Mark whatever you send as a gift and never put a high value, are my two other pieces of advice.  These are ways you can generally help avoid any fees to the recipient on their getting the package.


Oh yes, it's really important to mark things as gift and give a rather low value - at least from the recipient's point of view because it usually means no extra import duties and taxes for us. A great piece of advice!

It's also not allowed to ship nail polish to and within EU by plane. So it's best to avoid it as it may explode.


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## pokeballssohard (Oct 16, 2014)

This will be my first Secret Santa, and I am so beyond excited! I'll be stalking the forums like crazy waiting for sign ups. Is it too early to be organizing a wishlist? Cause I am.

Seriously though. I'm really looking forward to sending someone a big box o' goodies. Because isn't that what Christmas is really about? Getting heaps of makeup?  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## kawaiisofoxy (Oct 20, 2014)

pokeballssohard said:


> This will be my first Secret Santa, and I am so beyond excited! I'll be stalking the forums like crazy waiting for sign ups. Is it too early to be organizing a wishlist? Cause I am.
> 
> Seriously though. I'm really looking forward to sending someone a big box o' goodies. Because isn't that what Christmas is really about? Getting heaps of makeup?  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


That's what I tell Santa every year  :smilehappyyes:  So far, so good!


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## pokeballssohard (Oct 21, 2014)

So, I'm a little confused. Are we supposed to have specific items on the elfster wish list, or no? Like do we say "I want -insert brand- lipstick in -insert color-", or "I would really like lipsticks in -insert colors-"?


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## meaganola (Oct 21, 2014)

pokeballssohard said:


> So, I'm a little confused. Are we supposed to have specific items on the elfster wish list, or no? Like do we say "I want -insert brand- lipstick in -insert color-", or "I would really like lipsticks in -insert colors-"?


You can do either, but it *really* helps some people (okay, me) if you have lots of very specific items, down to brand and shade (I'm personally doing a massive apartment-cleaning that is involving dumping my MAC collection, which *was* going to mean dumping it all in the trash until I was reminded of the Back to MAC program, so if my Santee has MAC lipsticks on their list, it's entirely possible new MAC lipstick will be in a certain person's future, but only if I have a list of specific shades to work with)! 

If you just want to give a general idea, then use the text tab on the Add to Wishlist page.  If you would like to add a specific item, you can either enter that text in that field, the URL for the item on the Link tab or (MAGIC SHALL ENSUE) install the Elf It! browser button, and then when you're on the page of the item you want to add to the list, just click that button, edit the description as necessary (size/shade/scent/just truncating the text/whatever), and there you go! 

(For the sake of OCD need-a-list-of-specifics freaks like me, adding a lot of very specific items is *awesome*.  You might think it's more helpful to not be picky and to not name particular items, but it's actually *less* helpful for a lot of people.  If we have a detailed list to work from, we know the things are wanted and would not be dupes, and then we won't stand in Ulta crying because we're completely lost without a list!)

(And some of us have been playing around on Elfster for a while already -- I didn't realize my first Elfster exchange was in 2006 until I went back through my history! -- so we've discovered some tricks on the wishlists, like how you can drag-and-drop to rearrange your list, but only in the app, or you can do certain other things, but only on the website.)


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## Luxx22 (Oct 22, 2014)

meaganola said:


> You can do either, but it *really* helps some people (okay, me) if you have lots of very specific items, down to brand and shade (I'm personally doing a massive apartment-cleaning that is involving dumping my MAC collection, which *was* going to mean dumping it all in the trash until I was reminded of the Back to MAC program, so if my Santee has MAC lipsticks on their list, it's entirely possible new MAC lipstick will be in a certain person's future, but only if I have a list of specific shades to work with)!
> 
> If you just want to give a general idea, then use the text tab on the Add to Wishlist page.  If you would like to add a specific item, you can either enter that text in that field, the URL for the item on the Link tab or (MAGIC SHALL ENSUE) install the Elf It! browser button, and then when you're on the page of the item you want to add to the list, just click that button, edit the description as necessary (size/shade/scent/just truncating the text/whatever), and there you go!
> 
> ...


Do we link our "wishlist" in our signature? Or how do we do that?


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## zadidoll (Oct 22, 2014)

LuxxyLuxx said:


> Do we link our "wishlist" in our signature? Or how do we do that?


Yup.


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## JC327 (Oct 23, 2014)

Catching up on this thread, so excited for secret santa!


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## meaganola (Oct 23, 2014)

LuxxyLuxx said:


> Do we link our "wishlist" in our signature? Or how do we do that?


If you do your wishlist on Elfster, it will automatically provide that information to your Santa.


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## lovepink (Oct 23, 2014)

Not sure if this is the right place to ask this so if not mods please move.

I am super confused by Secret Santa this year.  Can someone please explain the purpose of using Elfster?  Is this soley for the collecting of address and assigning people?  It seems redudant to me to have a wish list on MUT and a wish list on Elfster.

Plus I assume to register on Elfster you have to give an email address and some other type of information to get an account.

If someone can clarify all this it is appreciated as it makes a difference in whether or not I choose to participate.

TIA!


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## zadidoll (Oct 23, 2014)

lovepink said:


> Not sure if this is the right place to ask this so if not mods please move.
> 
> I am super confused by Secret Santa this year.  Can someone please explain the purpose of using Elfster?  Is this soley for the collecting of address and assigning people?  It seems redudant to me to have a wish list on MUT and a wish list on Elfster.
> 
> ...


You don't have to have a list on both sites. The Elfster list makes it easier however if there are items that can't be wished on Elfster then posting it on MUT would help. As for using Elfster as a whole, it is to cut back on work for us (specifically me) since it'll allow the member to post their address so only the Secret Santa will have that info. Last year there were a couple of address mishaps (thankfully all but one was caught before the package was sent but even the one that wasn't still made it into the person's hands) so I'm hoping Elfster will take care of that issue.


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## lovepink (Oct 23, 2014)

zadidoll said:


> You don't have to have a list on both sites. The Elfster list makes it easier however if there are items that can't be wished on Elfster then posting it on MUT would help. As for using Elfster as a whole, it is to cut back on work for us (specifically me) since it'll allow the member to post their address so only the Secret Santa will have that info. Last year there were a couple of address mishaps (thankfully all but one was caught before the package was sent but even the one that wasn't still made it into the person's hands) so I'm hoping Elfster will take care of that issue.


Thanks!  So we have to make an account on Elfster for the purpose of getting addresses only (can use wishlist if you want) and then we have to meet the requirements to participate through MUT for Secret Santa?  Just want to make sure I have it all down.


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## zadidoll (Oct 23, 2014)

For the most part that is correct. On Saturday the main sign up page will come open but basically it's this.

1. Create your Elfster account and make sure to use the nickname field with your username so know who is who there.

2. Create a wish list - here or on Elfster.

3. Post in the sign up thread that you've signed up on Elfster so we can keep tabs on who is participating from MUT.

4. Fill out the survey here on MUT ("Getting to know me") to help your Secret Santa to get to know you better.

5. Have fun.

Rules are different this year as well.

*Secret Santa participation rules:*


Members who participate must have a minimum of 50 posts by the 1st day of sign ups.
Note: "drive by" posts ("hi!" or "I agree" type of posts) won't be counted. QUALITY posts. Get to chatting with your fellow MUT members, you'll be surprised how quickly you accumulate posts if you participate on the forums!
 
Must be in good standing with no serious infractions and/or negative trade ratings within the last 12 months.
 
Sign ups for Secret Santa will begin *Saturday, October 25* and last through *Saturday, November 8*. This is a TWO week window to sign up. This year we will be using Elfster.
Note: Because we're using Elfster this year your real name will be used so please make sure you fill out in the nickname field your MUT username so we know who is who.
 
Gifts must be sent out no later than December 1 for international exchanges and December 15 for domestic.
_*Note*_: This will give you almost one month to shop and ship. For those participating in an international exchange please refer to the USPS or UPS site for details on when the deadline for shipping international happens to be. The international postal dates typically ends on or around December 1 to 3 which is why it's critical if you have an international Secret Santa giftee to mail your gift by those dates. For those within the US the cut off date is December 15 to ensure your SSG has the item by Christmas. You may ship earlier if you wish but please do not ship later then the cut off dates.Navy holiday mailing dates
UPS holiday mailing dates
USPS holiday mailing dates
Endicia holiday mailing dates

[*]Shipping priority is not mandatory however tracking is mandatory. If you use Paypal to ship there are 1st class options that may be less expensive and will typically include free tracking.
 
[*]A tracking # *is mandatory*. Tracking #s should be sent to Santa's Elf (TBD) for our records.
*Note*: International traders, tracking may or may be available however an export # will be issued which acts like a tracking #.
 
[*]Total gift value should be approximately $25.
 
[*]Item(s) must be *NEW* and never used, swatched or opened.
 
[*]Open to international traders HOWEVER note that gift receiver is responsible for any import fees, duties or taxes (if any). Also international shipping takes longer - up to 12 weeks depending on where the person lives and how it was mailed. (See rule for shipping deadlines.)
*Note*: If you would like to trade only within your country please state that.
 
[*]*Once you sign up please do not back out as it will cause problems with the assignment list.* If you do back out you may be prohibited from participating in future events.
 
[*]Forum username must be included somewhere on or in your gift to indicate who the gift is from. You may omit your real name if you so choose however do not omit your username.
 
[*]Posting photos of the gifts you receive is NOT mandatory however ACKNOWLEDGEMENT that you did receive the gift IS mandatory. You may or may not like the gift(s) sent HOWEVER please acknowledge that your gift was received so we may mark you off the list. I will post a list of everyone who is participating and will remove names as they acknowledge that they received their gift.
 ​*Participating in Secret Santa is at your own risk. *
 ​
This is a swap exchange. As with all swap exchanges you are at risk for a Secret Santa to flake out and not send a gift at all. If you do not receive a gift by December 23 please let us know. This is why tracking is important. It is mandatory and it is an inexpensive way to prove that an item was sent. If you use Paypal to ship tracking is included even in first class shipping.
 
ALLERGIES: If you have an allergy or sensitivity PLEASE let us know so we may inform your Secret Santa. Please note this will not guarantee that your Secret Santa will be able to prevent any reactions as some companies do not list all ingredients.


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## tacehtpuekam (Oct 23, 2014)

As far as I know, using the Elfster features are optional, but I think it will be really helpful if most people use it. To add things to your wishlist, you can use links (which will make it super easy for your Santa to shop) or you can download the 'Elf It!' button (kinda like the Pin It! button if you're a Pinterest person) &amp; just add things that way. I just think that's so much easier than having to type up a list! And if it's something non-specific like 'any purple lipstick,' you can just add that as text to your wishlist. 

Also, I have a feeling there will be a lot of members participating in multiple swaps (I probably will be). Using the Elfster wishlist will help minimize duplicate items because Santas can mark things as 'purchased.' Your 'santee' won't be able to see what's been purchased off of her list, but everyone else will be able to so they'll know not to buy those things. 

PLUS, you can ask your person question anonymously. So you can just ask them questions yourself instead of always going through an Elf/Sugar Plum Fairy/whatever.  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

It's pretty handy!


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## meaganola (Oct 23, 2014)

What @ said.  The more I play with Elfster's features, the more I like love it.


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## CurlyTails (Oct 23, 2014)

Elfster really is a lot of fun once you get the hang of it!


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## Lolo22 (Oct 24, 2014)

allistra44 said:


> As far as I know, using the Elfster features are optional, but I think it will be really helpful if most people use it. To add things to your wishlist, you can use links (which will make it super easy for your Santa to shop) or you can download the 'Elf It!' button (kinda like the Pin It! button if you're a Pinterest person) &amp; just add things that way. I just think that's so much easier than having to type up a list! And if it's something non-specific like 'any purple lipstick,' you can just add that as text to your wishlist.
> 
> Also, I have a feeling there will be a lot of members participating in multiple swaps (I probably will be). Using the Elfster wishlist will help minimize duplicate items because Santas can mark things as 'purchased.' Your 'santee' won't be able to see what's been purchased off of her list, but everyone else will be able to so they'll know not to buy those things.
> 
> ...


I agree with all of this, plus your wishlist has thumbnail images so its MUCH easier to get an overview of the kinds of things/colors/styles your person likes (instead of googling everything).

If you can "pin" or "love" or "bookmark" or "add to favorites" you can elf!  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />


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## Luxx22 (Oct 24, 2014)

meaganola said:


> What @ said.  The more I play with Elfster's features, the more I like love it.


Me too!! Im almost done my list  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> - Its really fun!


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## Jac13 (Oct 25, 2014)

I am in!!!


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## zadidoll (Oct 25, 2014)

Closing this thread since we're now LIVE!

Sign ups are now open!!!


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