Shampoo VS Conditioner

[Adrienne]

I want a glittery pony LOL

 

[HairEgo]

*Gives Adrienne a glitter pony*

 

[TwinkletOes26]

awwwww cute

 

[Ricci]

Its all good

Originally Posted by TwinkletOes26 /img/forum/go_quote.gif My im use to seeing drama on the other forums im on but here i never see any lol this is strange. Ricci i agree with Internet Chick. Dont assume bc some choose to keep using drugstore brands that they have never tried salon brands. Ive tried salon brands off and on when i could afford them and like i said b4 i saw no diff with shampoo on deep and regular condish.

 

[Noir Sakura]

Originally Posted by Ricci /img/forum/go_quote.gif The ones that are trying to prove Hairego wrong .. just keep using the cheap shampoo u always have been

To Hairego; some people are stubborn , even though they haven't tried the healthier stuff .. oh well its their loss I guess ..

I will keep using my cheap shampoo thank you very much, seeing as how all the expensive ones I tried contained ingredients that made my hair tangled and dry. And I haven't lost any hair due to using my affordable shampoo.

All I'm trying to do is show that there are alternatives to everything and that people need to get over brand snobbery. If all expensive products worked all the time for everyone, you'd always see a direct positive correlation between customer satisfaction and product price, but you don't. Look at all the "don't waste your money on XXX product". So obviously spending money doesn't make a product better for you. Step outside the box of your salon and you can find loads of good quality products at the drugstore of beauty supply store.

 

[Ricci]

Its not about brand snobbery its about clashing opinions

Originally Posted by Noir Sakura /img/forum/go_quote.gif I will keep using my cheap shampoo thank you very much, seeing as how all the expensive ones I tried contained ingredients that made my hair tangled and dry. And I haven't lost any hair due to using my affordable shampoo.
All I'm trying to do is show that there are alternatives to everything and that people need to get over brand snobbery. If all expensive products worked all the time for everyone, you'd always see a direct positive correlation between customer satisfaction and product price, but you don't. Look at all the "don't waste your money on XXX product". So obviously spending money doesn't make a product better for you. Step outside the box of your salon and you can find loads of good quality products at the drugstore of beauty supply store.

Quote:
seeing as how all the expensive ones I tried contained ingredients that made my hair tangled and dry Im really curios which product u used to get that kind of result!

 

[Noir Sakura]

Originally Posted by Ricci /img/forum/go_quote.gif Its not about brand snobbery its about clashing opinions Well it seems that because I'm not an "expert" my opinion doesn't matter and I don't think that's fair. I've done my research too.

Quote:
Im really curios which product u used to get that kind of result! Oh, too many to name. I used to be a salon junkie, and only used what my stylist recommended. I tried Aveda, Redken, Dudley Q, Nexxus (when it was a salon only product), Back to Basics, and a whole host of others. The only shampoo I used at the time that worked for my hair without hurting it was my cheap Suave Daily Clarifying that I had just bought on a whim. So I checked the ingredients to see if there were similarities and differences and there were. All the salon products used SLS as their cleansing agent and the Suave used ALS. So there it was. I was using two different ingredients and one obviously worked better than the other for my hair, so price had nothing to do with it.
I never thought that sulfates were bad (though some hair companies would have you believe so), but I also didn't think there was a difference between SLS and ALS, but obviously there was and SLS just did not work for me. And try as I might, I could not find a salon shampoo with ALS in it. Almost all of them were SLS so I knew they wouldn't work because of that ingredient. So that lead me to the drugstore to search. And there too, I kept running in SLS. I only found 4 shampoos that had ALS. And those are the only shampoos I'm willing to use now.

 

[Ricci]

I never said that

Quote:
Well it seems that because I'm not an "expert" my opinion doesn't matter and I don't think that's fair. I've done my research too.


Originally Posted by Noir Sakura /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well it seems that because I'm not an "expert" my opinion doesn't matter and I don't think that's fair. I've done my research too.
Oh, too many to name. I used to be a salon junkie, and only used what my stylist recommended. I tried Aveda, Redken, Dudley Q, Nexxus (when it was a salon only product), Back to Basics, and a whole host of others. The only shampoo I used at the time that worked for my hair without hurting it was my cheap Suave Daily Clarifying that I had just bought on a whim. So I checked the ingredients to see if there were similarities and differences and there were. All the salon products used SLS as their cleansing agent and the Suave used ALS. So there it was. I was using two different ingredients and one obviously worked better than the other for my hair, so price had nothing to do with it.

I never thought that sulfates were bad (though some hair companies would have you believe so), but I also didn't think there was a difference between SLS and ALS, but obviously there was and SLS just did not work for me. And try as I might, I could not find a salon shampoo with ALS in it. Almost all of them were SLS so I knew they wouldn't work because of that ingredient. So that lead me to the drugstore to search. And there too, I kept running in SLS. I only found 4 shampoos that had ALS. And those are the only shampoos I'm willing to use now.

Have u tried Aura or Enimence?

 

[Noir Sakura]

Originally Posted by Ricci /img/forum/go_quote.gif Have u tried Aura or Enimence? I think I've heard of Aura, but never tried either. Are these ALS based? If not, I probably couldn't use them.

 

[Ricci]

Exuce my ignorance what is ALS?

Originally Posted by Noir Sakura /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think I've heard of Aura, but never tried either. Are these ALS based? If not, I probably couldn't use them. they are organic products

 

[Orangeeyecrayon]

ALS and SLS are both sulfates and they are the agents that clean your hair.

i was thinking you seem to like the more clensing products, is it possible that you used products that were to harsh for your hair?

i dont know all the high end brands you used, but i do knw aveda very well and the most popular one is rosemarry mint, which is also the most drying and stripping of the hair. which means the most tangling.

i dont think that it is ALS and SLS that is the problem, just professional products tend to be more efficent at there job wheter it be clarifying or hydrating ext. so it could be that clarifying shampoos that are professional products are just to harsh for your hair

 

[Dragonfly]

One idea that has not been mentioned is when the same company makes both a salon line and a drug store line.

Years ago when I worked, I purchased Schwarzkopf products from where i got my hair cut.

I thought the line was fabulous and my hair looked great.

I became disabled and now live on a third of my salary. I could no longer afford Schwarzkopf products.

I did some research and discovered that a drug store line called Got2b, is made by Schwarzkopf - and for a 1/4 of the cost.

So I use the Got2b and guess what - its the same stuff as Schwarzkopf!

Same hold, same fragrance, same quality - same everything!

Moral of the story is - there are drug store lines that are just as good as salon lines.

In fact, they are better because they are much less expensive.

Not picking on L'Oreal - just using the company as an example:

Makes we wonder about L'Oreal making high end products and drug store products.

Any chance that the products all use the same ingredient, even though Kerastase is marketed as "salon" quality?

Reality is - the ingredients are all the same - except L'oreal pockets more money as people are willing to shell out more money because they believe that the more they spend, the better the quality.

 

[Noir Sakura]

Originally Posted by Ricci /img/forum/go_quote.gif they are organic products I've sometimes had problems with natural/organic products, but I will still look them up.

Originally Posted by Orangeeyecrayon /img/forum/go_quote.gif i was thinking you seem to like the more clensing products, is it possible that you used products that were to harsh for your hair?

i dont know all the high end brands you used, but i do knw aveda very well and the most popular one is rosemarry mint, which is also the most drying and stripping of the hair. which means the most tangling.

i dont think that it is ALS and SLS that is the problem, just professional products tend to be more efficent at there job wheter it be clarifying or hydrating ext. so it could be that clarifying shampoos that are professional products are just to harsh for your hair

You know, I never used a high end clarifying shampoo because my stylists always recommended a hydrating/moisturizing shampoo because my hair was so dry. But I definitely think that SLS is just an ingredient in shampoo I can't use because even when I tried the drugstore shampoos with SLS, I got the same tangly, dry hair. The main shampoo I use now is Herbal Essences Hello Hydration. It's ALS based and moisturizing. Now, if there was a salon product comparable to it, I would definitely buy it because salon products come in salon sizes and I would probably only have to buy say a gallon size once a year instead of the small bottle at the drugstore every 3-4 months.

Originally Posted by Dragonfly /img/forum/go_quote.gif One idea that has not been mentioned is when the same company makes both a salon line and a drug store line.
Years ago when I worked, I purchased Schwarzkopf products from where i got my hair cut.

I thought the line was fabulous and my hair looked great.

I became disabled and now live on a third of my salary. I could no longer afford Schwarzkopf products.

I did some research and discovered that a drug store line called Got2b, is made by Schwarzkopf - and for a 1/4 of the cost.

So I use the Got2b and guess what - its the same stuff as Schwarzkopf!

Same hold, same fragrance, same quality - same everything!

Moral of the story is - there are drug store lines that are just as good as salon lines.

In fact, they are better because they are much less expensive.

Not picking on L'Oreal - just using the company as an example:

Makes we wonder about L'Oreal making high end products and drug store products.

Any chance that the products all use the same ingredient, even though Kerastase is marketed as "salon" quality?

Reality is - the ingredients are all the same - except L'oreal pockets more money as people are willing to shell out more money because they believe that the more they spend, the better the quality.

This thought has crossed my mind also. Because drugstore brands are "cheap", they can sell more product volume and therefore put more money into research. So I don't think they would do all that testing and research only to turn around and put low quality ingredients back into the products.
As for L'Oreal, I've been to one of their research and testing facilities and they have the high end products right up there with the drugstore products. I don't know if they actually make the products there, but I do know you can sign up to have them test products on you and you have an equal chance of being picked for a drugstore product or salon brand, but they say the quality will be the same.

 

[Ricci]

Originally Posted by Orangeeyecrayon /img/forum/go_quote.gif i was thinking you seem to like the more clensing products, is it possible that you used products that were to harsh for your hair?
i dont know all the high end brands you used, but i do knw aveda very well and the most popular one is rosemarry mint, which is also the most drying and stripping of the hair. which means the most tangling.

i dont think that it is ALS and SLS that is the problem, just professional products tend to be more efficent at there job wheter it be clarifying or hydrating ext. so it could be that clarifying shampoos that are professional products are just to harsh for your hair

What makes u think its too harsh for my hair? My hair is in really good shape actually,Is this what the products did to your hair? I'm assuming its because your hair is bleached blond? and is probably already damaged from the bleaching ?I don't find Aura drying at all!

Originally Posted by Dragonfly /img/forum/go_quote.gif Years ago when I worked, I purchased Schwarzkopf products from where i got my hair cut.I thought the line was fabulous and my hair looked great.

I became disabled and now live on a third of my salary. I could no longer afford Schwarzkopf products.

I did some research and discovered that a drug store line called Got2b, is made by Schwarzkopf - and for a 1/4 of the cost.

So I use the Got2b and guess what - its the same stuff as Schwarzkopf!

Same hold, same fragrance, same quality - same everything!

There must be a reason why its cheaper (Got2B) Im assuming its not exactly the same as Schwarzkopf line

 

[Orangeeyecrayon]

@ricci: i only mean products made to clarify the hair, when used everday. i dont know about the shampoo you use but aveda makes one called rosemarry mint too, i dont use it on my hair, while my hair is not bleached it is blonde which means less protiesn so if i want it long i have to be careful with it.

i used to go to school at aveda, which means aveda products only, and while some people requested rosemarry mint for the smell, besides requests we really only used it if we had done hair care and needed to make sure all the color or bleach washed off, and on our manequins to get rid to the rank smell they have when they first come. So while clarifying shampoos are good and nesecary they should IMHO be used sparingly.

i am going to assume that the aura shampoo is much more moisturizing than the aveda one. i just used the aveda one as an example since it is the only shampoo line i know well, but i am assuming all shampoo companies make some more moisturizing and some more cleansing shampoos

also i was looking online at the ingredients of products, cause i have no life. I think the price diffrence is most likely due to the proportion of the products, i only looked at conditioners. and i found that both high end and low end products contain waxes, however the drugstore brand contained more. My guess is there is a higher percentage of the less expensive ingredients in the drugstore and the high end have a higher percentage of the more expensive ingredients (when compared with each other). i am just guessing though i only compared two, but it seems like a logical reasoning. as nora sakura said, she only gets drugstore stuff cause that has ALS rather than SLS, maybe ALS (aluminum laurel sulfate) is less expensive than Sodium laurel sulfate. which would make sense also since aluminum laurel sulfate is more likely to form since it is a sault, where are sodium laurel sulfate is not a salt and more energy has to be put in to form this product since the charge on the sodium is not negated by the sulfate

@Nora Sakura:

i see, well everyones hair is diffrent some peoples hair like ALS some like SLS and some hair likes sulfate free. if you have one that does not agree with your hair you sure as heck will get tangles and it will be dry and lack luster and be frizzy. You are pretty lucky that the one that works for you is found in less expensive brands. i am sure there are ALS and SLS in both high end and low end brands, i dont look at ingredients enough to know. Im more of the ohh this packaging looks pretty type of shampoo buyer, and if the shampoo has a blue tone (which is suposed to tone down gold tones in blonde hair) im sold. i think for me that is proboably more of why i personaly use high end brands, because they have yet to make a blue or purple color depositing drug store brand shampoo. (i know they have john frieds sheer blonde, but they make your hair more yellow than anything). I would just contribute your hair issues with SLS to just that, the SLS.

 

[Noir Sakura]

Originally Posted by Orangeeyecrayon /img/forum/go_quote.gif @ricci: i only mean products made to clarify the hair, when used everday. i dont know about the shampoo you use but aveda makes one called rosemarry mint too, i dont use it on my hair, while my hair is not bleached it is blonde which means less protiesn so if i want it long i have to be careful with it.
i used to go to school at aveda, which means aveda products only, and while some people requested rosemarry mint for the smell, besides requests we really only used it if we had done hair care and needed to make sure all the color or bleach washed off, and on our manequins to get rid to the rank smell they have when they first come. So while clarifying shampoos are good and nesecary they should IMHO be used sparingly.

i am going to assume that the aura shampoo is much more moisturizing than the aveda one. i just used the aveda one as an example since it is the only shampoo line i know well, but i am assuming all shampoo companies make some more moisturizing and some more cleansing shampoos

also i was looking online at the ingredients of products, cause i have no life. I think the price diffrence is most likely due to the proportion of the products, i only looked at conditioners. and i found that both high end and low end products contain waxes, however the drugstore brand contained more. My guess is there is a higher percentage of the less expensive ingredients in the drugstore and the high end have a higher percentage of the more expensive ingredients (when compared with each other). i am just guessing though i only compared two, but it seems like a logical reasoning. as nora sakura said, she only gets drugstore stuff cause that has ALS rather than SLS, maybe ALS (aluminum laurel sulfate) is less expensive than Sodium laurel sulfate. which would make sense also since aluminum laurel sulfate is more likely to form since it is a sault, where are sodium laurel sulfate is not a salt and more energy has to be put in to form this product since the charge on the sodium is not negated by the sulfate

@Nora Sakura:

i see, well everyones hair is diffrent some peoples hair like ALS some like SLS and some hair likes sulfate free. if you have one that does not agree with your hair you sure as heck will get tangles and it will be dry and lack luster and be frizzy. You are pretty lucky that the one that works for you is found in less expensive brands. i am sure there are ALS and SLS in both high end and low end brands, i dont look at ingredients enough to know. Im more of the ohh this packaging looks pretty type of shampoo buyer, and if the shampoo has a blue tone (which is suposed to tone down gold tones in blonde hair) im sold. i think for me that is proboably more of why i personaly use high end brands, because they have yet to make a blue or purple color depositing drug store brand shampoo. (i know they have john frieds sheer blonde, but they make your hair more yellow than anything). I would just contribute your hair issues with SLS to just that, the SLS.

SLS and ALS cost about the same to make. And actually SLS would be considered a slightly cheaper ingredient, that's why it's the most popular cleansing agent in shampoo versus ALS or other surfactants. And neither ALS or SLS is a salt or else most commercial shampoo would dry everyone's hair out.

Here's some info on the difference between a lauryl and laureth sulfate. I will see if I can find the difference between aluminum based and sodium based sulfates later.

Cleansing Agents - Anionic surfactants that are the main active ingredient in all shampoos. All other ingredients are added to improve the action of the surfactants or to alter the products texture, color, fragrance, or feel. The most common primary surfactants used in shampoos are 1) lauryl sulfates and 2) laury ether surfactants

1) Lauryl sulfates are used as the primary surfactnat because they are inexpensive and are very good cleansers, but the can be damaging to the hair and irritating to the skin.

2) Lauryl ether sulfates (laureth sulfate) are ethoxylated to produce a surfactant that is milder and less irritating.

 

[Orangeeyecrayon]

technichley ALS is a salt, all a salt means is a metal and a nonmetal, or a second way is a non polarized body.

in this case it is a metal and a nonmetal compuound attatched to a carbon chain

 

[Noir Sakura]

Originally Posted by Orangeeyecrayon /img/forum/go_quote.gif technichley ALS is a salt, all a salt means is a metal and a nonmetal, or a second way is a non polarized body.
in this case it is a metal and a nonmetal compuound attatched to a carbon chain

No, a salt is a product from mixing an acid with a base and they become neutralized. This is one chemistry concept I definitely grasped the first time I learned it, lol.
Here's some info on ALS (I got it from wikipedia), no mention of salt (or metal) anywhere.

Ammonium lauryl sulfate (ALS) is the common name for ammonium dodecyl sulfate (CH3(CH2)10CH2OSO3NH4). The dodecyl signifies the presence of a 12-member carbon chain in the molecular backbone which allows the molecule to bond with non-polar portions of molecules while the highly polar sulfate head allows the molecule to bond with polar molecules such as water. ALS is classified as an alkyl sulfate and is an anionic surfactant found primarily in shampoos and body-wash as a foaming agent.[1] Lauryl sulfates are very high-foam surfactants that disrupt the surface tension of water by forming micelles around the polar water molecules.

Ammonium lauryl sulfate, like any other surfactant, makes a good base for cleansers because of the way it disrupts the hydrogen bonding in water. Hydrogen bonding is the primary contributor to the high surface tension of water. In solution, the lauryl sulfate anions and the ammonium cations separate. The former align themselves into what is known as a micelle, in which the ions form a sphere, with the polar heads (the sulfate) on the surface of the sphere and the nonpolar hydrophobic tails pointing inwards towards the center. The water molecules around the micelle arrange themselves around the polar heads, but this disrupts their hydrogen bonding with the water surrounding them. The overall effect of having these micelles in an aqueous (water) environment is that the water becomes more able to penetrate things like cloth fibers or hair, and also becomes more readily available to solvate anything coming off the aforementioned substance.

And SLS, again, no salt.

Sodium lauryl sulfate (SLS) or sodium dodecyl sulfate (SDS or NaDS) (C12H25SO4Na) is an anionic surfactant used in many cleaning and hygiene products. The molecule has a tail of 12 carbon atoms, attached to a sulfate group, giving the molecule the amphiphilic properties required of a detergent.

SLS is a highly effective surfactant used in any task requiring the removal of oily stains and residues. As such the compound is found in high concentrations in industrial products including engine degreasers, floor cleaners, and car wash soaps. In household products, SLS is used in lower concentrations with toothpastes, shampoos, shaving foams, some dissolvable aspirins, fiber therapy caplets. It is an important component in bubble bath formulations for its thickening effect and its ability to create a lather.

 

[Ozee]

see what happens if you have good hair!!!

 

[HairEgo]

Originally Posted by Dragonfly /img/forum/go_quote.gif One idea that has not been mentioned is when the same company makes both a salon line and a drug store line.
Years ago when I worked, I purchased Schwarzkopf products from where i got my hair cut.

I thought the line was fabulous and my hair looked great.

I became disabled and now live on a third of my salary. I could no longer afford Schwarzkopf products.

I did some research and discovered that a drug store line called Got2b, is made by Schwarzkopf - and for a 1/4 of the cost.

So I use the Got2b and guess what - its the same stuff as Schwarzkopf!

Same hold, same fragrance, same quality - same everything!

Moral of the story is - there are drug store lines that are just as good as salon lines.

In fact, they are better because they are much less expensive.

Not picking on L'Oreal - just using the company as an example:

Makes we wonder about L'Oreal making high end products and drug store products.

Any chance that the products all use the same ingredient, even though Kerastase is marketed as "salon" quality?

Reality is - the ingredients are all the same - except L'oreal pockets more money as people are willing to shell out more money because they believe that the more they spend, the better the quality.

You would be surpirsed to learn what L'oreal owns....they own Lancome, Matrix, Kerastase, Vichy, Armani, Diesel, Shu Uemara, Mizni, Maybelline, Ralph Lauren, Keihls, Redken...the list goes on.